Menopause Is a Journey Couples Take Together

Michelle Hardwick joins Richard Lowe (The Writing King) on Leaders and Their Stories for a candid, practical conversation about a subject most couples face unprepared.

Based in Ireland, Michelle helps women and their partners navigate menopause together. She makes the case that it is a shared journey, that communication is everything, and that partners do far better when they show up rather than sit on the sidelines.

Michelle Hardwick is an Ireland-based practitioner who helps women and their partners navigate menopause together, focusing on communication, connection, and practical strategies. She is gathering input from men for a forthcoming book and runs menopausewingman.com and releasepeace.ie.

For more conversations like this one, see the Leaders Hub.

DISCUSS YOUR BOOK

Full transcript of the interview follows.

Richard: Hello. This is Richard Lowe. I’m the writing king. And this is the leaders and their stories. Podcast I’m here with Michelle, Hardwick. And she’s going to talk about her book. Menopause Wingman. Michelle, why don’t you introduce yourself.

Menopause Is a Couple’s Journey

Michelle Hardwick: Hi, Richard. So yeah, I’m Michelle Hardwick, and I’m based in Ireland, and I’ve been helping women and their partners through the transition of menopause. and I’m in the process of collecting research from men particularly to hear about their stories, their experiences, what’s worked for them, what hasn’t, and any questions that they might have.

So the book is really about men’s voices, men’s experiences, and a support really an emotional practical support with strategies, tools, exercises that can help both of you, Junie, through the very, very challenging times of menopause.

Michelle: Well, what happens when you have a hysterectomy is it can propel the menopause symptoms, you know. It can speed up the menopause symptoms, and so both of you really go on the emotional roller coaster and the menopause roller coaster. and it can sort of almost feel like all the strategies that you used before.

No longer work kind of like turning up for a football game and realizing, oh, actually, it’s basketball, you know, and I’m not prepared.

Richard: No, no, no, no, that’s not right. Now. It’s more like thinking you’re going to a football game, and you find out that you’re in the middle of a knife fight.

Michelle: Yeah. Well, no. So if you’re on the sidelines and you’re you’re kind of being hit with that. That’s not easy at all, Richard, you know. and I hear you. It’s it’s very unpredictable. It’s quite scary sometimes, not only for you, you know, but also for the person who’s going through it, too, you know.

often kind of, I think, for me. It was very much about grieving the things that I used to be able to do, and the connection that I had with my partner then, and that that’s all kind of gone. And you’re establishing a new kind of playing field. New rules.

a new way of being together, and you know I noticed how patient he was, and that for me was really a lasting.

When You Are Not the Same Person

Michelle: You know, strategy one of the strategies. But you know I also noticed that I myself oftentimes wasn’t the same person. I didn’t respond the same because what happens when our when our. when our hormones change and start to fluctuate, it’s not a gentle little flowing river that goes downstream and then dissipates.

You know. 1 min there’s some estrogen there, or progesterone and testosterone, and then other times. There’s a fluctuation, and then there’s non, and then it’s up right then it’s down again. So you can be that real kind of people, pleasing woman that you’ve been earlier on. And then suddenly, you just don’t want any bullshit.

You don’t want anyone near you. You just want them to leave the hell alone. Leave you the hell alone, you know. So you’re kind of in this real roller coaster trying to understand it yourself. And so that’s where you know the menopause Wingman sort of was created from talking with you really, and understanding how how tough a journey that is.

Not just from a, you know, a hormonal perspective, but emotional perspective, mental perspective, and trying to get strategies and tools together to support men. So that they don’t feel like they’re living with a wolverine. You know that they actually feel like there is some hope, even though you know, menopause lasts for a 3rd of a woman’s life.

So we’re not talking about a short game, you know. It’s not a sprint. This is a Marathon and you know we need to be flexible, really, in terms of maybe getting different strategies together, particularly I don’t know if your ex had hot flashes and night sweats did that? Did that affect her at.

Richard: Well, well, I’m widower, so it’s not it’s he passed away a long time ago, but she went through. She went through everything everything you can imagine. But I kind of liken this to puberty. Yeah, we all hit. We all hit puberty.

Nobody Prepares You for This

Richard: Some age, and we go in there, and nobody talks to us. Nobody tells us what it is. We go in there blind. We don’t even know when it’s coming true. And and so I hit my teenage years, and I didn’t know what was happening. Women, the same problem, you know.

Richard: I think that in school the classes that they’re teaching are useless. What they need one of the classes they need to have is. and maybe it falls also on the parents. Maybe the parents need to be there also. and maybe it needs to be parent run. I’m not sure but there needs to be a training regimen for parents and children on.

Here’s what’s going to happen for me. You know, Richard, you’re gonna become a sum bitch. You’re becoming arrogant asshole, which is what I did. And parents, you just got to put up with it, and I’ve seen women who went Goth and became all emo and stuff like that, and that’s fairly normal to go through various things.

I mean, whatever the the output is. there’s no manual on that. If there’d been a if the parents had sat down and said, Look! Or an outside person sat down and said, Look, here’s what’s going to happen. You guys need to go. My parents didn’t even discuss sex or anything like that. I mean it was. I never heard it from them, not even a word. From them.

Richard: So, you know, I learned from my friends which is not the place you want to learn, or from other adults who weren’t necessarily ethical. That’s not the place my parents should have. Let me learn this from.

Michelle: Some taboo subject. Yeah.

Richard: They? We grew up in the Church of Christ. So it was a taboo subject in the Church of Christ. You would go to hell. Yeah, in hellfire. Yeah, I’m not a church of Christ anymore, you know. Oh, no, no, it was much worse than that. Yeah. Gonna be in the lower levels of hell, you know. No escape, no, nothing, nothing. You can do.

Michelle: No, and I think that’s true in terms of there is some education in schools, but not really how to manage or navigate this, and I think, you know, there’s a lot of there’s a lot more information out there now. There wasn’t in our time. There certainly wasn’t. It wasn’t, as you said, talked about.

It was often a very, very difficult subject to even get any information about, but also there are strategies even there that are not talked about in terms. you know, for the young woman who’s going through periods how to actually be, you know, certain times of the month she might have lots of energy and be really clear, really focused, really articulate.

And then there’s other times where she just wants to be left alone. There’s other times where she feels more kind of sexual than not. and then there’s a time when that wanes as well, and then you begin the cycle again. So that’s kind of the same cycle that happens right through life until it doesn’t, when for a full year there’s no bleeding, and then you’re starting the you know the perimenopause, and then you go into menopause, and then afterwards the postmenopause.

So you know, I think there’s so much that we struggle with, you know, in terms of not just the physical symptoms, but also the emotional fluctuations. And then there’s our identity shifts because we’re no longer the same person. Our bodies are changing, too right, you know. And so that’s that’s also a huge trigger.

And then on top of all of that, you know, there’s the sleep disruptions. You know. And so you’re trying to function through the day with very little sleep. And so you can become a wolverine because you’re just running on empty, you know if you think about it, you know it’s kind of like.

If you were in a car, and the car’s been going really well. And then suddenly you start losing power in the car. So the brain, which would be the driver in this case is putting more foot on the gas, more acceleration to try, and, you know, make that car go faster.

And yet what’s happening is the emotion. So the hormones are kind of dissipating, and therefore that’s where the flushes and everything come in, and the flashes come in because the brain is still trying to get things to run properly. Whereby now we’re going into a completely different power mode, and it’s a slower pace or a different pace.

So you know, our brain is still thinking we can do all of this stuff, but we actually can’t. So you know, we’re going through it, not knowing what’s going on. And then men are also going through it confused.

You Walk In Blind

Richard: What we do is we walk into a blind because it’s not something that a woman wears a sign on her chest, saying, I’m in menopause now, or whatever phase she’s in. And so we walk into it, thinking, she, that things are normal or relatively normal, especially at the beginning, when we’re just getting started.

And then and then the stuff just happens and it’s cyclical. I was like, what the hell’s going on. And.

Richard: Because of the way society is structured and things. It’s not something that that men feel comfortable sitting down with their spouse or girlfriend, or whatever, and asking so what’s going on? And she’s not gonna tell you either. She may not even know, you know.

Michelle: She might not know. She might be embarrassed, you know she might feel uncomfortable, but I think that’s what I talk about as well in the book, you know it’s about.

Richard: She may, she may slice your throat open.

Michelle: Well, possibly, but maybe not if if but it is, there’s some strategies in the book as well about how to discuss that, you know in terms of, to say, almost like a weather check, you know, how are you? How are you today? How are things today? You know?

How are you feeling, is it? Is it kind of a a sunny with rain cloud kind of day? You’re feeling a bit upset, or, you know, is it like a really really cloudy day. So we’re feeling really down. And we might need a bit of a hug. And and that also is kind of about developing a strategy, too, in terms of where we’re communicating together. And I think.

Communication Is the Foundation

Michelle: You know, with any good team, you know, it really is. The basis is communication. So that you’re starting a different form of communication.

Richard: Well. she had a Latin temper and a Latin communication style, which was, and maybe it’s true with all women is, or many women, I mean, I don’t want to generalize. She was very covert in her communication. so rather, if if I said What’s wrong? Nothing. I’m fine and.

Richard: We men were like, Okay, you’re fine and we walk away. Situation handled. You’re fine, but.

Why “I’m Fine” Is Never Fine

Richard: You know it’s not fine, and if she would simply say, I’m not fine. leave me alone. Okay, you know, or I’m not fine. Here’s what’s going on, or get the hell away from me would be fine.

Richard: The worst thing of all.

Michelle: And I need a hug.

Richard: Worst thing of all is saying, I’m doing well or fine, which is the way we interpret it. I’m doing well.

Richard: We’re we’re done! We’re done with the communication now we’re done. We men and women are like, Hey, wait, wait! Wait! I wasn’t. I said I was fine. That means I’m not fine. What do we? You know.

Michelle: Yeah. And and I think that’s where possibly starting, you know. to be able to adapt both of you, because there may be times where she doesn’t really want to talk about it, and.

Michelle: I know. Well, yeah, it is. But you know I know for myself there were certain things that I had to get my head around first, st and I had to kind of process it 1st to then be able to talk about it. Some things I felt embarrassed about and therefore I needed to feel quite grounded with that first, st before I even brought it to John, my husband.

Now, I mean we we’ve journeyed through the menopause together, and and you know, we got married last year. So that’s kind of testament to him, really in terms of understanding as well. But he also did research. I think that was important, that he was interested, and he wanted to find out more, and he wanted to support me as best he could.

And I think that’s where that Wingman really comes into his own right. He’s starts, and there is much more information than there ever was before. I have to say, and more people are talking about it now, thank goodness, but it’s still a subject that’s a little bit tricky, and I’ve seen on some of the sites.

you know, it’s an only women group or an only men menopause group because women don’t feel comfortable with men listening in or vice versa. And yet it is a subject that everybody needs to talk about. And you know that’s where you know, even getting to a point where you can start to negotiate certain things, you know.

And in the book I talk about, you know, celebration anchors where you can actually celebrate something, you know. Or then, for example. find out. Yes, we really need some time out right now, and some of the techniques that I talk about there. You know, the 7 11 breathing is just so helpful where you’re breathing in for 7 and breathing out for 7 11 particularly great when she’s having a hot flush or a hot flash, you know.

But also, when you’re in that situation where you feel those emotions rising. And one thing I wasn’t aware of was a lot of stuff from childhood that might not have been dealt with. Difficulties in childhood, come up again to be looked at. So on top of everything that’s happening physically and emotionally and mentally.

You’ve got some of these issues from the past starting to rear their heads to really are being asked to be looked at. And that’s where I work one on one with women and men, because it can be really triggering for women when this stuff comes up. How do I deal with that?

You know it’s been 50 years. And now suddenly, it’s back in my face, but also how that can affect the partner in the relationship.

Michelle: Can, how challenging that can be emotionally as well, and the support that’s needed as well for the partner of the woman who’s going through menopause.

Richard: Yeah, I always used to have this situation where stuff like that would come up. It came up. I’m fully aware of that. Things that happened to her 40 years before we’re coming up. I’m I’m thinking to myself, okay, I’m not a therapist. I’m expected to be a therapist here, but that’s not what I am.

I don’t want to deal with this. This is something that’s 40 years ago. There’s not a thing we can do about it. It’s gone. You can’t go backwards in time and fix it. She doesn’t want me to help her fix it.

She Does Not Want a Saviour, She Wants to Be Heard

Michelle: Doesn’t want you to be her Saviour. And right it. That was very clear you to listen. Yeah.

Richard: And she doesn’t actually want me to listen. But sometimes she does, but sometimes she doesn’t. But she wouldn’t say so. It became very weird from a man’s point of view. It’s like what is expected of me here. I’m not going to be your therapist. That’s not what I do.

That’s that’s the wrong hat for me. You’re not. You’re not giving me any guidance. You’re talking about things that really need a therapist and some technology of some kind, and I’m not going to help you cruise the waters between your father and what happened back when you were 6 years old.

That’s not something that I’m talented to. I don’t have the skills to do it. It’s not my place, and it’s really not my problem.

Michelle: Yeah. But it is because because you’re with her, you know.

Richard: It is because I’m feeling the knives in the back, not dealing with it.

Techniques Designed for Change

Michelle: Yeah. But I, you know from from the techniques that I work with, these things can be dealt with. They don’t have to be, you know, painful. They don’t have to take years and years and years to be dealt with. I work with a number of different modalities to be able to support the person, to to address it.

Michelle: So there’s so different techniques or therapies. So okay, that’s it.

Michelle: Yeah. So they are really designed for change. And so when a person has like you’re talking about you know, knows that maybe it was a situation when they were 6 or something to do with their father. That makes it much easier to be able to hone in on and to be able to look at it now through the eyes of the adult.

We are now rather than the 6 year old child that only has 6 years of experience on the planet, and so would look at it from a point of it must be my fault. I’ve done something wrong. Not that maybe dad is having a really bad day, and it’s just lashed out at you, you know.

Richard: Well, let me give you an example from and from my point of view, as as a man I mean, I went through my early years with the father, who literally would take out a 2 by 4 and whack me with it. This was a daily occurrence, or hit me, or smack me, or whatever verbal abuse was worst, and the worst abuse of all was the ignoring. Now.

Richard: I went through therapy and all that. So it’s not there anymore for me other than I know. It’s there.

Richard: But I didn’t put any. I didn’t talk to her about this stuff. It was not her place. I went to a therapist. That’s my, that’s that’s my, that’s the right role for it. you know. I’m sure some of that backlashed on her a bit, because, you know, it’s I’m a human, and things happen and.

Richard: It’s not something that I would have expected her to be dealing with or listening to, or anything. But I think that’s 1 of the differences between the male in the society, the male oriented person and the female oriented person is men tend to keep that stuff to themselves.

As a rule. Of course, there are exceptions. Women wanna talk about their feelings. Men want to talk about their solutions really.

Richard: Do I solve this? I go to a therapist, you know. That’s a that’s a man, a woman. How do I solve this? I want to talk to my husband or boyfriend, and I want them to understand, and I want their sympathy and help and blah blah, and men don’t want to do that.

We don’t want to now we will, because otherwise we get, you know, hurt. But It’s not. It’s not a comfortable place to be. We don’t want to be the therap. As a rule.

Richard: We learned today.

What Women Need: To Feel Understood

Michelle: Think, yeah, I I think women need that closeness, and they need to feel understood. And they need to be heard. And so I think that’s where there can be challenges, and I think fair play to you, Richard, to actually going to get help and go to therapy. You know, because that’s such an investment in yourself, but also in the relationship.

Richard: We. We touched on it a lot in the therapy, the relationship, and not because I didn’t understand what’s going on. I mean, there’s no book on it. There wasn’t at the time.

Richard: But it was a it was a. It was interesting, because then there were the societal things. 1st of all, the Latin culture from Guatemala. She was.

Richard: Mentally unable to talk about these things. But she wanted to talk about these things, so it introduced this.

Richard: A culture where Church of Christ, you don’t talk about these things, period, or you’re going to hell. Now I grew outgrew that I wasn’t a member of Church of Christ anymore. But it’s it was still there. It’s not. It’s not anymore. It’s gone by now. I’ve been purged it.

But at the time it was it was heavy. and I didn’t really know it. And then we had the menopause thing and the and the you know, the hysterectomy and all that kind of stuff in the middle, plus the stepson. my stepson he, I got him when he was 14. Bad age to get to pick somebody up.

Michelle: Yes, yeah. And then there’s then there’s conflict or competition with mama.

Richard: But you know all these things, because that’s just life. Yeah. And that’s the thing everybody has life happening. Me. I had this stuff going on. I had other things to work and things like that, and she had stuff going on, you know, whatever she was doing.

Richard: Is called life. and that’s the thing. While we’ve got these emotions and things going on with menopause and and whatever men go through, I don’t know what they call it, because we go through similar type things not as severe. We have cycles.

The Biology Underneath

Michelle: You? Yeah, you do. Yeah. But the thing is with your bodies. You’re still getting that burst of testosterone every kind of 15 min or so, and.

Michelle: But for many women, you know that the libido hasn’t just left the body. It’s left the building. It’s maybe gone planet. Exactly so. Therefore there’s absolutely no interest. But it is really also a discussion that needs to happen in terms of how can we still maintain contact, connection, and closeness.

Michelle: Maybe without kind of penetration. Maybe there’s another way that we can do this to keep that connection going.

Connection Comes First

Michelle: Then, you know, that’s and I think from from a woman’s perspective, she has to feel connected to you in order to be intimate for a man. He has to be intimate in order to feel connected. So we’re actually at completely different.

Richard: That’s very true. That’s that’s a very true way of doing it. yeah, that’s that’s no truer words.

Show Up, Do Not Sit on the Sidelines

Michelle: Yeah. And I think, too, you know, as we go through the menopause, and you’re not on the sidelines you’re showing up. Then it could be, for example, that the small things really mean a lot. So even did you empty the dishwasher, for example, did you get up early so that she could sleep because she hasn’t had a wink of sleep all night.

Have you done that? Because those things are phenomenally important? It’s the small things that are so important like. Are you showing up? Are you there to support her? And then she’ll feel more connected because she’s part of the team. She’s not just on her own, with a spectator watching by a side. She’s actually part of a team. She’s got a wingman there, you know, who’s.

Richard: It’s good advice, it’s good advice. Unfortunately, I didn’t have that advice. and we were pretty much winging it, so to speak.

Richard: And we winged it badly.

Richard: Plus. She had health issues. So that made it even worse. So okay, well, we’ve pretty much run out of time. So how can people? How did you sum up your with your thoughts.

A Request for Men to Share

Michelle: Yeah, well, I was I. It’s a request, really. I would really, you know, encourage any men who would like to share their experiences, to go on to our new website. It’s menopausewingman.com. And there are 6 questions there, and I would be so so grateful for the wisdom for the experiences for any tips or hints, because I do want to collate information for men by men to be able to put in the chapters of the book and.

Richard: And it’s anonymous.

Michelle: It’s anonymous it can. You can put your name if you want to, but it could be anonymous, is confidential. And so anything that you feel to share would be very much appreciated. And then, as I said, one lucky gentleman will have a half an hour. Free consultation with me, and.

Michelle: Can do that, and just chat about what they need in their at their particular time. And and so the book can be for men for women who are interested in seeing it from the man’s perspective, although it may be that you know. my hope is that more men would read it, but also that younger men would read it so that they know what’s going on as well as they go as they’re dealing with their mother, who’s going through this? Perhaps.

Richard: How can people get hold.

Michelle: Thank you. Thank you for this opportunity. Richard.

Where to Find Michelle

Richard: And how? Thank you. You’re welcome. How can people get hold of you?

Michelle: So either answering the questions on menopausewingman.com, or my website, releasepeace.ie. Or my name michellehardwick.com. So there’s a couple of ways. I’m on Facebook, and I’m on Linkedin as well with my name. Michelle Hardwick.

Richard: Awesome, and your book is on Amazon.

Michelle: So we are in the process of collecting it and writing it. So the the research that I’m asking for will be part of the book. Yeah, so it’ll be there on Amazon soon, probably by the end of the year.

Richard: Awesome. Well, thank you for.

Richard: I’m Richard Lowe. This is the leaders and their stories. Podcast I’m the writing king and ghostwriting, Guru. And I hope you enjoyed the podcast you can reach me@thewritingking.com, or ghostwritingguru. All the links that we mentioned here will be in the description, and that’s it until next time have a great day.

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