Identity, Resilience, and Leadership

Urmi Hossain joins Richard Lowe (The Writing King) on Leaders and Their Stories from Montreal for a wide-ranging conversation on identity, resilience, and leadership.

A memoirist shaped by four cultures, Urmi traces how Toastmasters built her into a leader, what it takes to lead through a screen, and why she now champions women in leadership across generations.

Urmi Hossain is a Montreal-based author and leader whose memoir spans four cultures. Active in Toastmasters and women-in-leadership groups, she writes and speaks on identity, resilience, and leadership. Find her on LinkedIn and YouTube.

For more conversations like this one, see the Leaders Hub.

DISCUSS YOUR BOOK

Full transcript of the interview follows.

Richard: Hello. I’m Richard Lowe. And this is leaders and their stories. Podcast. I’m the writing king and ghostwriting Guru. And today we’re going to talk about leadership with Erme Ermi. Why don’t you tell us a little about yourself?

From Montreal, a Global Story

Urmi Hossain: Yes, thank you, Richard, for for having me. My name is Ermie, and I’m calling from Montreal, Canada. I am a woman who wears many hats. I am a self published author, speaker, mentor, blogger youtuber. And I’m currently a full-time employee in the financial sector. But everything else that I mentioned right now are all the things that I do in my free time.

I’m also part of 2 organizations. The 1st one is called Women in leadership, and the second one is called family influence, and the job of the 2 organizations are really to provide the tools to the women in the community, to empower them.

Richard: Great. That sounds like quite a resume there. So tell me 1st about your book. You wrote a book.

A Memoir of Four Cultures

Urmi: That’s right. I wrote a book. It was self-published in 2022. And basically my book, it’s a memoir. It’s basically about my life in Italy as a true culture kid from a perspective of a South Asian woman, where I make a comparison and contrast between my 2 cultures. So my parents culture, which is the Bengali culture and my culture, the Italian culture, which is the culture that I got because I was born and raised in Italy. So that’s what the book is about.

Richard: So now you have your Bing asian culture, South Asian culture, Italian culture, and Canadian culture altogether.

Urmi: Yes. So basically, I consider myself Italian by birth and Bengali by blood. And basically how it all started that when I was born in Italy. I was pretty much the 1st from the community, and I was also the oldest one, and I went predominantly to a school that was mainly it was mainly populated by Italian people.

There were not that many immigrant kids. So for me, I always felt I was misplaced. That’s how I felt. I felt like I was not fitting in, even though no one made me feel otherwise. And basically all my life I had only Italian friends. So there was always that sort of like detachment where, you know, I did not feel enough of this.

I did not feel enough of Bengali. I did not feel I was Bengali enough, especially when I was going home, like they’d say, maybe you know, even though I look like everyone else, I was very much aware that my mentality was very Western. and so there was a lot of conflict in that sense.

So I always went through this internal struggle from a cultural point of view where I was not able to define myself. And then I think this problem became much bigger when I moved to Canada, when people would ask me the question, okay, where are you from? And this is what I struggled in coming up with an answer, because I was like, do I tell them I am Italian.

Do I tell them I’m Bengali. But no matter what answer I gave, then people would question it, because even if I would say like, oh, yeah, I’m Bengali. People would be like, Okay, but why do you have such a strong? You know Italian accent when you speak in English?

And if I would say, Okay, you know I’m Italian. Then people would look at me and be like, Okay, are you serious? Don’t look Italian. And so that was the main struggle, I would say, Yeah.

Richard: Okay, interesting, interesting. And when did you begin your path to being a leader.

How Toastmasters Made a Leader

Urmi: This one. It started, I would say officially, officially. in 2019 it started when I joined the Toastmasters Club. I don’t know if you are familiar with this club, which is a non-profit organizations dedicated to empowering, not empowering, but helping people to basically empower the leadership skills and to become better speaker.

Richard: Yeah. I’ve been a member for a while.

Urmi: Okay, there you go. And so I joined toastmaster in 2019. And this is where the world leader, basically just it was, you just hear the world Leader nonstop, and even their their sentence, you know their motto is, this is where leaders are made, and I would say officially, it really started when I became the Vp.

Of education. I did that for 2 years, and then I became the President. And that’s when I learned that, you know you gain so many leadership skills at toastmasters that you can also apply in your day-to-day job. And what made me realize this, the leadership is not just a title.

But it’s really about inspiring other people, encouraging other people, serving other people. And often I used to think I always there was this misconception that I used to think the leaders leadership is all about titles, because that’s how you learn it. But it wasn’t like that.

What Leadership Really Is

Richard: Right? So what is leadership?

Urmi: For me, leadership is really inspiring people and leading by example.

Richard: Okay, okay, I always think of leadership as basically somebody who gets a group to go in a certain direction. Generally the goals of the organization that they’re in. So if your goals organization is to improve profit by 3%, then your goal is, say, a Vp is to get your group going in that direction.

Richard: And that’s that’s basically the root root definition of leadership. Now, how you lead.

Richard: Is a different question. Do you lead as a servant leader? Or do you lead by example? There’s all these different ways to lead.

Richard: Okay. Good. Do you have any explorations to be in the politics.

Richard: What kind of things did you learn is in the in the leadership of toastmasters.

More Than Public Speaking

Urmi: I learned many different things. I think those masters is really not just a place about public speaking. It’s about, you know, organizational skills. It’s about critical thinking. It’s about being creative. It’s about, you know, building connections and communicating with your team. It’s really I felt that when I was the Vp of education.

I am untapped some skills that I wasn’t aware of things that I was capable of. and for me, like it was a lot about being creative, because I could see that a lot of the times. The club was very demotivated, very discouraged. So I had to think of ways on, like, you know.

changing the energy, you know, making sure that the members were motivated. And that’s how I became much more creative. And I started to introduce things here and there, like, you know, Monday motivation. For, like, I started to introduce this thing called Monday motivation from Urmi, which was like a short email where I would provide like one tip on how to be.

Let’s say how to use better your body language, or how to use pauses like every week there was something new. And basically the goal was really to boost up the energy of the club members. So that was one thing I started to do. The other thing I did was I introduce, like, let’s say, the member of the month where I would like send an email to the club and recognize the work that one of the member did.

Maybe one person did. I don’t know. 2, 3 speeches per month, you know, just to show them recognition, because I feel like as leader, you have to do that. And so for me, it was really about creativity being creative. On finding ways to really help your Club, which goes back to what you said earlier, and as I was doing this I could see that you know, that was helping with the retention. It was helping with the club itself. Psalm.

Leading Through the Pandemic

Richard: And it must have been tough during the pandemic.

Urmi: Very tough, very tough indeed. The club that I was part of for 4 years. It no longer exists because it was just hard. People were really not motivated. And then we came to the conclusion that we had to really just just close it.

Richard: Interesting. Yeah, that that probably happened to a lot of organizations. Pandemic was very difficult time for a lot of people difficult in multiple ways here in here in the States. Basically, money was given to people to help them survive, and that can have a demotivating effect on getting people to actually work.

I know a lot of younger people who at the time given all the various handouts they were able to make, you know, pay the rent and make a decent living without doing any work at all.

Richard: So I asked them, You know, what are you doing? And they said, Well, we’re just what playing video games and stuff. And it’s like, well, you use this time to. because they had a year on that program. Use this time to invest in yourself. Go to school something, you know. They didn’t.

Urmi: Also. Here’s the thing like, I know, like a lot of clubs, you know, just closed down during the pandemic. But public speaking. Yes. there is like an an etiquette when it comes to like speaking on videos and stuff like that. But you get most out of it when you’re speaking in person, and so I think a lot of people did not see that kind of value, and that was the issue.

And you know, I think there was also the zoom fatigue, just staring at the computer the whole day. And then you’re sitting down again for another hour or 2 for a meeting. I mean it was nice. It’s always nice to be part of a toastmaster meeting like you got to learn so much.

but I think you get so much more value when you’re meeting in person like me. For instance, yesterday I attended an in-person meeting, and it was so productive I had so much fun, and you get to connect and meet with other people. So there is pros and cons, you know, like you still have to be good at speaking in front of a camera, for sure, but I think you get most of it when you meet in person. You know.

Leading From Behind a Screen

Richard: Well, I’m on zoom almost 12 HA day sometimes, and it does. There is, how did you? Yeah. yeah, there’s zoom fatigue. I jump from meeting to meeting network group to network group. Do these podcasts? I do a couple of other kind of network groups, like a writing, critique group and things and but I tend to be an introvert.

So doing it from my house is fine with me extroverted people. They want to get out with people. Introverted people are, oh, God! I gotta go out with people.

Urmi: That’s it. That’s it, that’s it. But that’s it. So because I’m an extrovert. I like to be more like in person around people connect with people. So I prefer that that way. I mean, I think that Zoom is okay. But it’s just you have to find your the right fit. I would say.

Richard: Yeah, yeah, it it does have the zoom fatigue headaches. When you’re writing. You have this fixed stare to the screen, and that tends to hypnotize you. So when you’re writing it.

Urmi: And it doesn’t help. especially when you’re leading from a zoom screen. If the person that you’re trying to lead or let’s say you have a group of people they don’t have their camera on, and you’re not quite sure what they’re doing. And you’re not quite sure even if they have the camera on you.

You’re not quite sure if they’re following. So it’s much harder. It’s so much harder. We’re not like as humans. We’re not meant to just have zoom calls with no connections, and it’s the truth.

Urmi: But here’s the thing, especially as a leader. I think that if you are, let’s say the top of an organization, and you’re running an organization with people. It’s so much harder to also lead through a zoom screen. Because when you get together you have collaboration and you ignite, you know, ideas and creativity.

You know that there is that spark that comes, you know that you get when you’re together. And one thing that we do, for instance, like we don’t like. I work pretty much in from the office, and when we do meetings, for instance, we step away from the office and we go to a completely different, let’s say office, which is much nicer, and we can realize that it brings out a different side of us like we’re much more motivated.

I think it it helps to have different ideas to implement, which is good on a long term, you know, like you don’t get that from a zoom screen, because sometimes some people they don’t feel like talking. Maybe they’re shy, you know. So it really depends. It’s it’s it’s harder, I think.

Presence When You Cannot Be Present

Richard: I think it is harder. I’m a ghostwriter, and I have a lot of clients, and occasionally one of them will come visit me. and we’ll go off to a hotel room or something, and rent the hotel for for a few days, and then do in person meetings. And it’s amazing how much we can accomplish in a weekend, as opposed to.

you know, over over a zoom screen. It actually changes the dynamic quite a bit. It’s very. I’ve only had a couple of clients do that. It was very, very successful. So you know.

Richard: Yup, and they were very interesting sessions, because we could see each other flailing around to talk and yell at each other sometimes, you know, and sometimes, and then eat and calm down the nerves, and then we’d have a brainstorm, you know. It was all. It was all pretty good.

Urmi: Exactly. It’s the whole brainstorming park that you that you get, you know, and then you feel much more re-energized after these sessions. That’s how I like to describe them. Yeah.

Women in Leadership

Richard: Right? Right? Well, very good. So these women’s groups that you lead, or how? What are they, and what are they about?

Urmi: So the 1st one is called women in leadership. And it’s based in Canada. So basically, it’s a bigger organization based in Canada. So you have women in leadership, Canada, and then within the organization there are different chapters across the whole, like across the whole country. So you have one in Montreal.

You have one in Toronto, Victoria, Vancouver, and so forth. So I volunteer for the one in Victoria, even though I’m based in Montreal. So I do it virtually. And I’m the social media lead. So basically, what I do, I render the Instagram account. I also do. Instagram lives where I invite coaches.

Who can be, let’s say, coaches about leadership, communication, public speaking, Linkedin, it depends. And basically we have, you know, this Instagram lives. And then, as an organization itself, basically, we have a leadership development program that people can enroll to. We also have a mentorship program. And then each chapter does also its own thing.

Let’s say they have. Let’s say they have, like a happy hour and a networking session for the women, or then let’s say, maybe they have. I don’t know. Let’s say, a Yoga session where every woman, like all the women, get together. But the reason why I joined this organization is because they really believe in this power of leadership, and their goal is the goal is to have more women in leadership positions. So because I resonated a lot with that, this is why I’m part of the organization.

Richard: Interesting, interesting. Yeah. I was talking to a person last night, and he was talking. He’s talking about the B 52 bomber, and that we use now. And he said that a lot of these bombers are crewed entirely by women. and it’s very. It’s very interesting that it’s the dynamic is switched, but they’re not male.

Urmi: Yeah, yeah, it’s It’s interesting to see how things are shifting and moving around. But at the same time I do think there is a long way ahead. because I have spoken to different women from different parts of the industry. and everyone seems to be saying that they work in a very male dominated industry where it’s hard to, you know.

Climb up the corporal ladder, and it’s hard to be a leader because of how we are perceived as a woman and and I can relate to it. I can relate to it. And unfortunately, it’s just how how it is, how the society is, you know, it’s like no one’s fault.

It’s just that it has always been like that. But we try to, you know, instill confidence in this woman to not give up and to always continue and go for what they want, especially if they want to be in a leadership position. So so, yeah.

Gen Z and the Barriers They Face

Richard: I would say that’s true of actually anybody like Gen. Z. Is entering the workplace here, and they’re they’re facing a lot of lot of obstacles. They’re young took. They got a mountain of debt from student loans. They probably took the wrong courses in the college because of literally, you know, literary arts degree is not gonna help them a bit in finding a job.

So they they get on the workforce and they have to still live with their parents. So they’re facing a lot of the same stigma, maybe even maybe even more than a woman in the workplace, because they’ve got all these things in the way.

Urmi: That’s right. I do agree that for Gen. Z. It’s much harder. and I can see it. I can see it around the people that I interact with in a way I do feel like they’re very much. I don’t know if it’s the right word like shadowed. I think they’re very much protected, you know, pampered by their parents, and I don’t think it helps them.

I don’t think like I feel like myself. I’m a millennial, so I feel like I every time I speak with the Gen. ZI can already see the. You know how different. We are very different, and I very different, and I think Gen. Zs are in a way, are not even taught to be independent or to think independently, and I and I think the pandemic did not make it easier for them, you know, like some of them graduated during the pandemic, some of them had to look for a job during the pandemic.

Some of them started university in pandemic. You know, things change, and they see things differently. And the world has changed, you know, like even the workforce has changed like they like. you know. Many years, are you? Many years ago you could not work from home, you know, but now it’s part of your normal routine.

Richard: I found a lot of the same blocks and barriers with older people. The the baby boomers who still want to work. that the the ageism. There is incredible. Having faced it myself. It’s just. I mean, it’s almost impossible for somebody who’s in their late fifties sixties to find a job, much less seventies and keep a job because they don’t want to hire an older person.

And that’s a shame because those people have. Do you know what the number one language that that things are written in in the world. In the United States, at least, maybe Canada, the number one computing language in the United States. It’s cobalt.

AI as a Digital Assistant

Urmi: Yeah. But even this you touched upon artificial intelligence that, too, you know, it’s a threat for many industry, but it could be an ally for other industry. And you know, like there’s always this fear that oh, what if it takes it away? You know what if, like artificial intelligence takes away our jobs.

But I think we just have to be able to use it properly for our own advantage, you know, and for the advantage of an organization. and not to see it really so much of a bad thing if you use it in the proper way.

Richard: If you think of it as a digital assistant instead of as a, as a replacement, or or like as a writer, it’s not gonna write books for me. What it’s gonna do is help me organize those books and review them and do all of the tasks that it would give to virtual assistants.

Now, virtual assistants might have a problem keeping a job because all of their stuff is pretty much wrote. Work that.

Urmi: I mean you. You speak about writing right? Like I have a Youtube channel, and I ask it. And I ask artificial intelligence. Write me a description, or give me a caption for an Instagram, you know Post, but you know there is only so much that it can do, and you have to give it also the proper instructions, because if you don’t give it the proper instruction, you’re going to get the wrong outcome.

You know it’s that concept of like garbage in garbage out. because I noticed that it does some mistakes. It does mistakes, and it says also.

Richard: Not only does it make mistakes, and it makes a lot of them. They’re called hallucinations. It also lies to you, and it also plagiarizes. So you you have to be careful when you write something with AI. Is it unique? Is it real? Is it? Is it hallucinating? I mean, it introduces a lot of problems that you you won’t have to face if you just write it yourself.

A Real Conversation

Richard: Yeah. well, we’ve been going for about 30 min. And that sounds like a good time. How would you sum up your thoughts in a couple of senses.

Urmi: If I have to use one word, I would definitely say it was very insightful and very conversational. And why? I’m saying conversational. It’s because often a lot of these conversation that I had, they were mainly like, Okay, the host asking the question and the guest answering the question. But the.

Richard: That’s exactly the format that I want is we’re having a just a just conversation. Other people may be they’ll be listening. They’ll be lots of years, but it’s it’s not. I don’t. I hate the ones that are just a question, answer question, answer, and they’re obviously can. And then the marketing thing.

They go through a marketing, speak. And I don’t want to know about their product. I can feed. Read that on the website.

Where to Find Urmi

Richard: Well, it’s been great. Have you here? How can people get hold of you if they want to talk to you?

Urmi: So I have a Linkedin profile. It’s called Ormi Hosan. I have a Youtube channel called Ormi Hosan. If people want to find out the work that I do for women in leadership. They can just type women in leadership. Victoria, chapter on Google or on Instagram, and they can find out all the work that I do, and my book is available on Amazon. It’s called Discovering your Identity. A rebirth from international struggle.

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