The Warrior Spirit: Helping Men Become Their Best

What does it mean to lead as a man today?

Rob Fenstermaker joins Richard Lowe (The Writing King) on Leaders and Their Stories for a grounded conversation about what it means to lead as a man.

Rob coaches men to step into the warrior spirit: becoming their strongest, most grounded selves. He talks boundaries, integrity, empathy, and why the leaders worth following are the ones who listen.

Rob Fenstermaker is a men’s coach who helps clients step into what he calls the warrior spirit, working with them over months to build mindset, boundaries, and integrity. He’s active in several men’s groups and communities.

For more conversations like this one, see the Leaders Hub.

DISCUSS YOUR BOOK

Full transcript of the interview follows.

Richard: Hello. This is Richard Lowe. And you’re listening to the leaders and their stories. Podcast. I’m the writing king and ghostwriting, Guru. And I’m here with Rob Finstermaker. Hopefully, I pronounced that right, and he’s going to talk about the warrior spirit. So, Rob, take it away.

What is the warrior spirit for men?

Rob Fenstermaker: Hey? Well, thank you, Richard. I thank you for this opportunity to come here. Yeah. The warrior spirit, you know. I’ve always identified myself as a warrior. Well, I shouldn’t say all.

There was a point in time when I did, and now it’s my mission to reignite that warrior spirit in men, and when I kind of go back to that time that I didn’t it’s when I was firmly ensconced in that corporate existence, I was really wrapped around a 9 to 5 identity.

I was doing what I you know what the expectation was. You go to work, show up, get a paycheck, come home provide for the family. But inside, the reason I followed empty is that fire wasn’t there anymore. So I did the hard work on myself and really discovered some things that I needed to do to reignite that fire with that was within me.

And after, you know, so many years ago that I’ve done that. I’m at this stage in my life right now, where I want to give back to other men to help them understand the power that that warrior spirit can have in them to be leaders, you know, in their families, in their communities, in their place of business.

And that’s where that warrior spirit comes about to me. You know A warrior is never somebody who’s out to fight those who are in front of him. A warrior is a man who takes his stand to protect those who are behind him. And that’s what I want men to understand.

Richard: I see now, how do you? How do you achieve this mission? What’s your goal? I mean? Not what do you go? How’s your process?

How can a man find his own truth instead of following the crowd?

Rob: Well, you have. Yeah. yeah, the process. I think the 1st thing that needs to happen as as a man, you need to understand your truths. I just see too many men. They’re just kind of going through the motions of life. They’ll just believe something because everybody else believes it.

Everybody in my family. Everybody I work with, but I go to church with everybody at the grocery store believes it so I’m going to believe it. I don’t want to rock the boat. and for me I always challenge that way of thinking because you’ve got to be. You gotta be solid.

What it is, you know to be true. and when you are, you’re able to take that foundation, you’re able to take that step upon that firm foundation. That foundation creates everything for your life. because every choice you make, every decision you make is going to rest on that foundation when it’s solid.

You’re making the right choices and right decisions to serve you, your family, your business, your community, serve whatever it is you’re wanting to do. So when you work with me. That’s 1 of the things we do. We really start digging in deep to what are your troops? What are those things that are non-negotiable to you? You have to know what those are. and as a man it’s very vital for you to know what those are, especially a man who. as a family, because it empowers you one to be a better husband to your wife. a more impactful father to your children. So we really unpack what those truths are.

and we all have our own personal truths. You know what’s true to me may not necessarily be true to you. but you have to know what those truths are in your life. And that’s the 1st step that we take. Really spend time digging into that.

Richard: Well, that sounds like an excellent goal. It’s probably gonna make men a lot more person personable, a lot easier to deal with, and a lot.

Why are boundaries important for a man with a family?

Rob: Well, yeah, you got to have boundaries. I mean, you absolutely had to have boundaries. And you know, when, as a man, when you have a family. Those boundaries are sacred. There’s certain things that that a married man, a man with a family should should never boundaries he should never cross, and never allow others to cross those boundaries.

So you have to. You have to set up those guardrails and be very intentional about it. and you know. I think one of the things that’s most important for a man to set up those boundaries and those those guardrails is he has. He must have other men in his life that hold him accountable.

I mean, we all want to be held accountable. And the the truth is, there’s always there’s only one person we can ever hold accountable, and that’s ourselves. We need others to do it for us. We need others to call us out when we’re not doing right, or, you know, cheer us on when we’re doing great.

But that level of accountability, especially men holding other men accountable is powerful. I’ve had the opportunity to lead different men’s groups for probably 30 years. and that was always one of the cornerstones of what we did is we held each other accountable for what we said, what we did, how we conducted ourselves, and how we treated our wives, our children, our friends, how we engaged in our work life, and we’d hold each other accountable for things.

Integrity When No One Is Watching

Richard: Right right? And that’s that’s getting very rare these days, I think, or rarer than it was.

What does integrity mean when no one is watching?

Richard: Integrity is an interesting thing. It can be interpreted so many ways. But basically it means you’ve got boundaries. You’ve got goals. You’ve got objectives. You’ve got things you’ll do things you won’t do. sins, not sins. And you live up to that. That whatever that that ideal is, might not be somebody else’s idea.

Rob: You’re right. You’re you’re yeah. I’m not definitely not far from perfect. But I have my level of integrity. And you what your integrity says that you’re you’re you’re the same person, regardless of the situation.

You you live by that creed and that oath that you’ve given. not when people are looking, but when you’re by yourself, so let me give you an example.

You know we hear so many men that say I’d never cheat on my wife, but a lot of these same men. When no one’s looking, they get on their laptop and download porn. Are you cheating on your wife? I think you are. I think you’re cheating on your wife and your family. If you’re doing something like that.

Richard: I’d say also part of a managed to be able to differentiate the small stuff from the big stuff. because there’s there’s lots of things in life. And I’m get finding this more and more as I get older. It’s just small stuff. I don’t get as mad anymore.

I don’t get upset anymore. Why, you know, somebody back talks me in the store, you know. Whatever it’s like, I’m not gonna go into Karen mode, you know, you need to do that. The the store clerk is a little bit snippety. I don’t need to go into Karen Mode, I mean, unless it gets really bad. because it’s small stuff. Yeah.

Does killing people with kindness work?

Rob: It is. You know what I do in those situations. Just kill them with kindness. Just kill them with kindness, you know, if they’re going to be jerks to you, just kill them with kindness. And most people realize, I guess maybe I was being a little jerky there when you do it.

I think a lot of times they’ll apologize. or if it’s chronic, you report them to the right people, get them handled.

Richard: There’s there’s some sometimes where it’s just a bad, you know, not a not a good person in that place, and.

Richard: You gotta do. I grab? Got it? That’s a that’s part.

Faith in the Human Spirit

Rob: But you know I I have. I have faith in in the human spirit. I have faith in people deep down inside. They want to be good. They want to do what’s right. maybe just in the moment. Because, you know, the the truth is, we never really actually know what’s going on in somebody’s mind.

We don’t know what crap they’re dealing with. You know what issues they’re dealing with. We just see them in this moment. and maybe they’re just spun out of control. We don’t know what’s going on.

Richard: If you could read somebody else’s mind. would you act differently? You know.

What is the difference between empathy and sympathy?

Rob: Yeah. And I think that’s where you know, empathy comes in, because, you know, that’s a skill. Had to learn how to use empathy, you know, having a daughter. I’ve had to learn how to be empathetic because I am. I kind of come from a little more.

I’m a little more of, you know, direct, strict background just how I was raised, and you know where my family, you know, comes from, and I’ve had to really understand the power of empathy.

and it’s served me well, you know my daughter went through a tough period in her life, and I had to learn how to be empathetic as her father. I had to learn the value of the example I was setting to her. And empathy is one of those skills I had to learn.

I’m far from perfect at it. but you know the power of empathy is you can appreciate and understand. The pain that somebody else is going through. It’s you, you walking in their shoes.

Rob: People people want, you know. People confuse it with sympathy, and sympathy. To me is kind of is an act of selfishness.

Richard: Sympathy is a desire to get is a desire to get stuff from people. You use it to manipulate people.

Rob: Empathy is more of understanding where people are at.

Richard: And and acting accordingly. So I understand why this person did this. Let’s do what we need to do. Get him into therapy, help talk to him, put him in men’s group.

Are men’s groups worth joining?

Richard: Speaking of which you are. I know that you’re in 2 men’s groups that I know of the whiskey hour right.

Rob: That this isn’t always there’s there’s a there’s women to come there, and I actually enjoy when women come there, because I love getting their perspective. And I I’ve been pretty upfront about.

You know my idea of what it means to be a man, and you know sometimes I’ll kind of go a little bit against the grain that you’ll you’ll hear in society.

you know that this idea of a toxic man, or, you know, male toxicity. and I’ve talked to enough women now that I feel encouraged that they want their man to step up and be a man. It’s as simple as that. I see more women that are upset by this idea of the toxic man than I see than I see of men.

Women realize the fallacy of that. They understand that. Yes, there are rules for men, and there are rules for women, and we’ve kind of really blurred these lines. And I think that’s where a lot of men get really confused is they’re they? They don’t wanna rock the boat they don’t want, you know.

They don’t wanna be, you know, outed, or whatever they just want to get along. But sometimes you know what you got to be willing to take that stand. You got to stand up for principle. You got to stand up for the character you have, and you’ve got to understand when to engage those battles, and maybe when it’s best to back off.

and that’s what a warrior does. A warrior understands when it’s time to engage, and also when it’s time to maybe fall back and regroup.

Richard: Well, sure, sure, that’s that’s the way you survive. I mean, if anything we learned from World War 2 is stand your ground regardless of what happens is a recipe for disaster. That’s that’s probably what killed Germany in World War 2 is one of the things, and a lot of other things, too, was like on the Russian front.

Don’t give an inch. Well. That’s pretty stupid when you’re being attacked. And yeah, he’s getting behind you, and all that kind of stuff.

Standing on Principle

Rob: Well, let’s let’s kind of back it up, you know. Let’s kind of go back. You know. I’m a i’m a bit of an amateur historian, especially military historian. Me, too, I love that time frame. I love that timeframe from, you know, the 19 tens up till the end of World war 2.

And there’s many historians who would argue that when the war started in 1914 it never ended didn’t officially end until 1945. And I tend to kind of agree with that. And you know, why is it? Well, look what happened to Germany, and you know men of character didn’t stand up against some of the atrocities that were going on.

They felt emasculated. They felt like, Well, we need some we need. We don’t have a leader now we need somebody. And so, you know, somebody who’s got some charisma shows up on the scene, and the problem is, a lot of men didn’t understand what their truths were. They didn’t understand what it’s now.

There were some who says there were some who stood up. Dietrich Bonhoeffer. If you haven’t studied him read about him. He took his stand, and he said, This is wrong, this is wrong, and you know he was imprisoned. He was thrown into a concentration camp, and he was eventually executed.

Rob: Stood on his principle. He stood on his principle. He he knew what his character was. He stood on that he knew his ground, he was a he was an absolute warrior. He didn’t fight with bullets, but he fought with words and ideas.

Richard: The way I look at it, the world is made a better place by the action, by the actions of many, many heroes and heroines. Of course, let’s be fair. Yeah.

People who who go beyond the norm think outside themselves and and do something about it, whatever it is, whatever’s the wrong in their life that they see whatever it is, even if I don’t agree with it.

There’s lots of things people do that agree with, but if they think it’s right, and it’s based on fact, not some propaganda bullshit. Then. You know. Let’s go for it. But that’s that’s another important thing I think men do should do is understand fact from lies. There’s there’s a lot of lies out there and understanding the different kinds of fallacies, logical fallacies and stuff is very important.

And then you go. Okay, yeah, that’s that’s the sun cost fallacy, or that’s this fallacy. And I don’t need to fall into that authority. Fallacy is a big one where you follow an authority figure, just because that’s an authority figure. And you know, just because somebody says shoes are great and they’re advertising on TV doesn’t mean the shoes are great.

Is there a leadership void in society today?

Rob: Yeah, yeah, yes, I agree. And you you gotta be. You know you. We all want to follow leaders. I mean, we all want leaders. I I think we’re in a real leadership void in this day and age.

Right now, we we we really lack leaders in a lot of the, you know, pillars of our society things that in the past were paramount of what our society was about.

and so we need leaders to stand up and and and do what they can. But in order to be a good follower, you need to be a leader as well. In order to be a good follower and a good leader. You need to know what your truths are.

And if someone’s just, you know. slick talker. Okay, well, what’s it they really mean you? You got to do the you know, the hard, critical thinking yourself, and ask yourself those questions. Is this somebody that really makes sense? Because we’ve seen a lot of flash in the pans that come in and they’re gone. But I think somebody who leads with principle their leadership will stand the test of time.

Rob: Yeah, it’s it’s it’s yeah. And it’s easy to jump to judgment. You jump to a quick judgment without knowing all the facts. And you know, something happens. It’s in the news, and everybody forms an opinion right away. And then a little more information comes out.

A little more information comes out, a little more information comes out, and the story is much different from what you saw when it originally happened.

so you know, I’m not one who’s quick to, you know. Jump on, jump to a I want to at least try. Do my best to get as much information as I can, you know. Get the get the whole story.

Why is listening the most important leadership skill?

Rob: Yeah, you know. I mean, I think you know one of the things you know that that a leader does that’s powerful, is he’ll listen we.

Richard: That’s where I was leading to.

Why do people follow whoever yells the loudest?

Rob: Yeah, we gotta listen. And yeah, I think listening to other people, you know, that’s part of that having that empathetic ear. Because I mean we live in a day and age right now, where too many believe that the the man or woman who yells the loudest is the one who’s going to win the army.

The One Who Yells Loudest

Rob: The one who yells loudest is just the one who yells the loudest.

Richard: It’s true, and they’ve perceived authority. That’s the perceived authority is what really does a lot of men and and women. I guess you think this person has authority and you believe them. That’s how cults are formed. You know.

Rob: Yeah, yeah, people.

Rob: No? Well, a lot of brainwashed men, and you know, men who weren’t weren’t clear on you know what it is. They really understood what it’s they believe. And I don’t know a lot about this this story other than you know what I’ve you know. Maybe read online.

I think there’s been. I know there’s been a movie about it that I might have. I know I watched. But yeah, it’s if you, if you’re going to follow if you’re going to follow somebody. Does this person align with what it’s you want? I mean, you don’t have to be in 100% or lockstep agreement with them.

Rob: I’ve never been in 100 lockstep agreement with any, you know, Buddy, I’ve followed who was who I considered a leader. and when I’ve had the opportunity to lead.

I never had the expectation that everybody’s going to be in 100% lock step with what I said, but what the value of what, what a leader does is they create that vision.

They cast that vision. I say, this is what we’re going to do. This is what I want to accomplish. And I need you on this team to come together and let’s get this done. and that’s the value of what a leader does they? They take the, they take the the team, or the organization, or whatever it may be, on that journey with them to get to that destination.

And when when the team works in, you know, concert and like that, it’s like a symphony. A symphony can make a beautiful sound. But everybody’s got to play their part. Not everybody can be the 1st violin. You can only have 1 1st violinist. You need somebody that’s going to play, you know. Percussion. You need somebody that’s going to play, you know the woodwinds.

What does stay in your lane mean in the army?

Rob: Yes, yeah. And everybody has their part, if in that. So you know, know your part. You know, when I was in the army, we called it. Just stay in your lane. Do you know it’s called Battle Battle Focus training. Stay in your lane.

You have a job to do just do that job. and when everybody does their job it is. It’s like a well-tuned orchestra that’s playing beautiful music.

Richard: Yep, yep. So that’s actually a great place to to end this and would you like to summarize that real? Briefly.

The Takeaway

Rob: Well, you know, I mean, I think it’s it’s vital for men to understand what that warrior spirit is for them. Yeah, it’s it’s reawaken that warrior spirit, because when you do so. you you become the man you want. You pursue the things you want out of life, instead of just settling for those things you need.

because when you pursue what you want, you’re living a life of abundance when you’re just settling for what you need. You’re living a life of scarcity and a life of scarcity takes you nowhere but a life of abundance. It could take you anywhere.

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