Joe Rockey sent me this episode and told me to watch it, which is how I ended up spending twenty-five minutes nodding at a leadership podcast about something I do for a living in a completely different form.
Joe is a client. He has also been on Leaders and Their Stories four times. He runs Elite Business Cruises, building sales teams around a shared incentive most companies would never attempt. On the H2H Experiment with host Joel, he takes apart a piece of advice everybody accepts without examining it.
Why does the Golden Rule fail in leadership?
Treat others the way you want to be treated. It sounds like a virtue and it survives on that basis, unexamined, from kindergarten forward.
Joe’s objection is mechanical. Every person has a set of drivers that make them want to get out of bed and go through a wall, and most people are fluent in exactly one set: their own. So you hand an underperforming employee the bonus that would move you, the public praise that would make you feel valued, and the working environment where you would thrive. They stay checked out, and you conclude they are unmotivated.
The odds that your top five and theirs match are small, and even where the items overlap the weighting does not. He describes the result as talking to yourself in the mirror. You are not leading anybody. You are performing your own motivation at somebody who does not share it.
Then he attaches a number. Gallup finds fewer than a third of people engaged at work, which across a forty-hour week works out to about twelve productive hours. That is what happens when a whole profession runs a strategy built on an assumption nobody checked.
How does this apply to ghostwriting?
The moment he said it, I recognised the failure, because I watch it destroy books.
A ghostwriter who writes in his own voice is doing precisely what Joe’s failing manager does. He is giving the client the version he would want if it were his book. The sentences he likes. The structure he finds satisfying. The jokes that land for him. And then he wonders why the author reads the draft and says something is off without being able to name it.
The author cannot name it because nothing on the page is wrong. It is competent, it is clean, and it is somebody else’s. I wrote about what capturing a client’s voice takes and about how far down the differences run, and the short version is that a retired Marine does not talk like a Silicon Valley founder, and a chef from New Orleans does not reach for the expressions of a hedge fund manager from Connecticut. Those differences are not decoration. They are the person.
So voice capture is the Golden Rule inverted. Write for them the way they would want, which requires finding out what that is instead of assuming it, and requires being willing to write sentences you would never choose.
What does it take to find somebody else’s setting?
Joe uses psychological instruments. A survey, two statements, which one you lean toward and by how much, then a report he reads to work out what he calls the edge of each person’s puzzle piece. From there he looks at which pieces fit, including pieces sitting on opposite corners of the board that nobody would have paired.
My version is hours of recorded conversation. Not a questionnaire, because the answers a person gives to a questionnaire are the answers they have already rehearsed. What I am listening for arrives sideways: sentence length, where the pauses land, which words show up repeatedly without the speaker noticing, what they get animated about, what they skip past. A ghostwriter who runs interviews for months instead of once is not collecting more information. He is waiting for the point where the presentation runs out and the person starts thinking out loud.
Different tool, same problem. You cannot translate somebody’s meaning into their own register until you know what their register is, and you cannot get that by assuming it resembles yours.
Why do incentives that reach further work better?
The strongest structural idea in the episode is about how far a reward reaches.
An incentive aimed at one person is fine and does what it does. An incentive tied to the whole team’s result is stronger, because now the top performer is not going to the All-Star game while everybody else stays home. Push it one step further, to everybody’s families, and the calculation changes completely. A person who will quietly coast on their own behalf will not do it when the cost lands on a colleague’s daughter.
That is what Elite Business Cruises is built on. The cruise is the shared prize and the families come. An individual bonus becomes something nobody wants to be the reason for missing.
The parallel in a book is real. An author writing for themselves stalls, and I have watched this happen to executives who had the material and the intent. An author writing for a specific reader in a specific situation finishes, because the reason to keep going exists outside their own enthusiasm. Enthusiasm runs out. The reach of the reward is what determines whether the thing gets done.
What about hiring people just like you?
Joe traces the copy-yourself hiring instinct back to the fifties and sixties, when it was survivable because there were fewer employers and less competition. Today more than eighty percent of the workforce is unlike you, so a hiring filter built on resemblance throws away most of the available talent on purpose.
Then he gives the sharpest number in the episode. He has fired seven clients across his career. Five of them were for the same thing: refusing to hire people better than themselves. His words on it are blunt, that a manager afraid of being outclassed has designed a business for failure.
I have my own version of that filter. I turn down projects where the author wants the book to sound impressive instead of sounding like them, because that request guarantees a manuscript nobody believes and a client who will not be able to say why.
When is “the way we have always done it” a real answer?
His treatment of this phrase is the part I will steal.
It is legitimate exactly once, when a physical law sits underneath it. A structural engineer does something a specific way because if he does not, a building falls on people, and the mathematics behind that takes an hour to explain and is not up for discussion.
Everything else is habit wearing a costume. This is how we pay people is not a law of gravity. This is how we structure a chapter is not a law of gravity. Human relationships have no constants of that kind, so a rule borrowed from one situation and applied to another is a guess with seniority.
He puts the counter to it plainly: you are asking for results you have never had, using the method that never produced them.
What I would push back on
The assessment tooling stays vague. He describes the format and the output but never the instrument. Reasonable on a podcast, and it does mean the mechanism is asserted more than demonstrated. If you were evaluating this as a buyer, that is the question to ask him.
The sports-team comparison is standard and does the least work of anything in the episode.
And one detail worth knowing before you go looking: the book advertised in the middle is Joel’s, not Joe’s.
Where this lands
The idea underneath the whole conversation is that a message only works in the register of the person receiving it, and that almost nobody does the work of finding that register because it is genuinely uncomfortable to write, speak, or reward in a mode that is not your own.
Joe does it with sales teams. I do it with manuscripts. The instinct being corrected is identical, and it is the same instinct that produces flat AI drafts, since a model trained on everybody produces the average register and the average register belongs to nobody in particular.
His takeaway for leaders was to sit with the kindergarten line and notice it is wrong. Mine for authors is narrower. If the book sounds like your ghostwriter, your ghostwriter wrote the book he wanted. Find out whether he can hear you first.
The Guides That Get Your Book Written, Published, and Sold
Four short, practical guides on writing, publishing, and selling your book, plus the occasional note when there's something worth your time. No fluff, no daily inbox clutter. Drop your email and they're yours.
We use MailerLite to manage our list and send these emails. Your address is used only to send you what you signed up for. We will not sell it, share it, or use it for anything else, and you can unsubscribe anytime.