Everybody Is Worth a Coffee

Anthony Markey was one of the first guests this show ever had. An independent insurance broker and the host of I Know A Guy Iowa, he has built 99.9 percent of his business on networking: conversations, referrals, and introductions, with no lead lists and no membership fees.

He returns to make the case that networking is not a tactic but a mindset, one that starts with the assumption that everybody is worth a coffee. Along the way: what paid groups get wrong, why two self-described ADHD introverts do this for a living anyway, and the ten minute mark where a stranger becomes someone who refers you.

An Early Guest Returns

Richard Lowe: Good afternoon. This is Richard Lowe with the Leaders and Their Stories podcast. I am here with Anthony Markey, and we are going to talk about how to network. Anthony is an entrepreneur, an independent insurance broker, and the host of I Know A Guy Iowa, a platform built around the simple idea that the right introduction can change a business. He has built much of his business through relationships, referrals, and strategic introductions. Now he is working on systems and tools designed to make referral-based networking more intentional, trackable, and valuable for everyone involved. Anthony, welcome to the show.

Anthony Markey: Happy to be here, Richard. Thanks for inviting me.

Everybody Is Worth a Coffee

Richard Lowe: So we talked a bit earlier about networking. Why don’t you tell me what your view of networking is and how valuable it is?

Anthony Markey: First off, it’s the mindset where everybody’s worth a coffee. Everybody has something they can teach you. People new in business, people that have been there for fifty years. You don’t know what you don’t know, and people will surprise you. I’ve had a lot of one-on-one conversations where I assume something going in, and then somebody says something that blows your hair back, and you take something with you. A lot of those are the ones that really stand out. The ones where this guy’s been in business for thirty years and knows what he’s talking about, you kind of expect that. And the average Joe that you run into can really, really move the needle for you and your business.

Anthony Markey: It’s been how I’ve done the majority of all my business. It’s all relational. 99.9 percent of my business has come from just networking, having conversations, finding those synergies, joint venture opportunities, co-prospecting opportunities. And you’ll never do that by keeping to yourself. Nobody out there is going to be as passionate about your business as you are. So if you can listen to other people, give them the time of day to explain a little bit about who they are and what they do, and then ask a little bit deeper questions, they’ll reciprocate and give you the opportunity to do the same.

What Happens When You Do Not Network

Richard Lowe: Interesting. So what happens when you don’t network?

Anthony Markey: Nothing really happens. You can buy leads, you can do all that stuff, and it works. Stuff will absolutely happen. But the best thing from my experience is to have more conversations with more people, because naturally a certain percentage of them are going to do something. Whether it’s the one third, one third, one third rule, whatever rules you want to put to it, the more conversations you have, specifically networking and growing your network and helping others, the better it is for your business. It’s something we’ve defined a thousand different ways. It’s Zig Ziglar: help enough people get what they want and you’ll get what you want. It’s the karma, it’s the golden rule, it’s the reap what you sow, it’s the Go-Givers, it’s you cannot out-give God. We keep saying the same thing in different words because there’s some truth to it. So if you’re not talking to anybody and you’re just sitting on your hands hoping business shows up, you’re going to be sitting for a while.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, that’s what I found. The more I outreach, the more that comes back. In fact, I would create a rule that output equals input. I don’t know if it’s a direct one to one. It actually isn’t. You have got to do a lot of outreach to get that one coming back who wants to buy your service or product. But the times when I’ve not done the outreach, I don’t have any clients coming in. Now, I have an advantage in that I have a website that’s really well SEOed and AEOed, so it tends to pull people in even when I’m not doing a lot of outreach. That’s an advantage, and that’s really hard to do. But the outreach and networking add more to that.

Anthony Markey: Plus you can get started for zero dollars in zero amount of time. It’s one of those things where you just talk to more people. The more people that know who you are and what you do, the better it is for your business. The more people that like you, the more people that are going to have conversations about you in rooms you’re not in, the better it is for your business. So you’re absolutely crazy for not using all of that. There’s a reason there have been so many sayings. Your network is your net worth, because there’s truth to it. Don’t fight against it. Don’t try to reinvent the wheel. You can do all the other stuff. The other stuff works great, and it can be multiplicative when you put both of them together.

The CIO Job That Went to an Outsider

Richard Lowe: When I was at Trader Joe’s, I was there for twenty years, and what I ran into was I wanted the CIO position. I was the director, so my immediate supervisor was the CIO. And I didn’t get it. Why didn’t I get it? Well, once I analyzed it, I didn’t network. Everybody in the company knew me. They all knew me as the computer geek and the guy in charge of computers. They didn’t know that I was a leader, that I had knowledge nobody else had, and that I could make things happen on the strategic level. So I didn’t get the position, and they hired from outside. That was a big lesson for me, that I had to learn to network. And I still didn’t get the concept until much later, because I tended to be an introvert.

Anthony Markey: Yeah, it’s something people should start before anything. It doesn’t matter if you own your own business, doesn’t matter if you’re a W-2, doesn’t matter if you’re in high school. It’s something you’re going to be able to carry with you for your entire life. It’s like building your brand, growing your network. No matter what changes, because I’ve been self-employed for nine years, and what I’m doing now is different than what I was doing nine years ago. But the people that knew me then still know me. And the first question is, well, what’s changed in your world? And you get an opportunity to tell them.

Anthony Markey: There’s a book I recommend everybody read. It should be mandatory reading in high school, and it’s How to Win Friends and Influence People. It’s an annual read for me, for the simple fact that it’s just talking about the basics of communicating. The better you are at reaching people, the better you are at standing out, being memorable, giving that feeling to other people, the better it is for you regardless of anything else. Because it doesn’t matter what we’re doing, people are social creatures. Be better at that and you’re going to be better at everything.

Paid Groups and Finding Your Caliber

Richard Lowe: Right. And then I remember once I left Trader Joe’s, I went to a BNI, and what a joke that was for me. You paid, I think it was 1,500 dollars a year at the time, and then I have all of these requirements that I do this and I bring in this, and you get penalties if you don’t. It’s like, I paid you money. I don’t owe you anything. Your job is to help me get referrals. My job isn’t to do whatever you want. So then I went to another one, a splinter group called RGA. That did a bit better. I stayed in there for about a year, and then I realized it wasn’t pulling in people of a caliber that could use my services. That’s something important when you’re looking at network groups: are the people in the group of a caliber that they can afford you, or that they want you? It’s no slight on them. They just don’t have the need for it.

Richard Lowe: And then I just started networking, and I ran into you somewhere or other. It was at Eliances or some other group. I ran into you, and my life changed, of course. And I’ve been learning networking, and not just networking but relationships. Building relationships is hard for me. I tend to be an introvert, and also I’m severe ADHD, so I can do tasks for a while and then I’m off chasing another squirrel. The squirrel chasing gets to be annoying sometimes.

ADHD and an Ocean Two Inches Deep

Anthony Markey: Yeah, I’m right there with you. I’m an expert at something for a month, then I’m looking at something else, which can be frustrating. I get an ocean’s worth of knowledge about two inches deep, where I do a little bit of everything. But that also helps in the networking world, because then you have a pretty decent understanding of what a lot of people are doing. And that’s one of the things that actually helped me with my ADHD. I don’t know what I don’t know, and there are people out there doing cool things that I want to know about, unless I talk to them about it. So it scratches that itch for me, because it’s not the same thing every day. You’ll run into people that are very similar. You talk to one insurance agent, you’ve talked to most. But you’re going to run into people doing something that makes you go, I’ve never considered that before. And then you can rabbit hole all you want.

Richard Lowe: That’s one of the reasons why I’ve got this podcast going and I’m doing a lot of guest podcasting. It’s forcing me to get out of my shell, out of my box a little bit, and talk to people and create a relationship. It’s one thing to create an episode and throw it on my website and YouTube. It’s another thing to make that travel. And that requires the relationships.

Anthony Markey: Yeah. Plus, I don’t know how the experience is for you, but if I’m just sitting here trying to talk to a camera by myself, I’ll stick to a script or to what I normally say. What really gets my mind working is having a conversation with somebody, because I’ll say something and I’m like, that’s exactly what I was trying to say, but I did it in the moment. I’m the kind of person that works better talking with people, because it pulls stuff out of me that I wouldn’t otherwise be able to access. You’re mixing paint, so to speak. I wonder what happens. How can I synergize with a ghostwriter? Can I synergize with a commercial real estate broker? I wouldn’t know. I don’t know what I don’t know.

Get Rid of the Box

Richard Lowe: Yeah. One of my targets is changing a little bit. I’m looking for police who are near retirement who want to have a book and maybe change careers to training or coaching. Military is a big market that I want to get more into. And that’s requiring me to get out of my shell and talk to these people. I have super respect for all of them, and I think it would be cool to talk to ex-military about their stuff. I’ve written some military books, but I’m not military in background. I can do research, and some military science fiction and military political stuff. I think people should not only get out of their box, they should just get rid of the box. Why do you have a box at all?

Anthony Markey: Yep, absolutely. There’s the tried and true stuff, which makes sense inside your box. But the real fortune is going out there and making connections and finding things that may work very similar but really move the needle for your business, things you wouldn’t have expected otherwise. And that’s just opening yourself up to having conversations and seeing what happens. Worst case scenario, you have a conversation with somebody one time and you never talk to them again. We do that every day. That’s a good portion of networking. But there’s that one-off chance where you might meet the right person at the right time doing the right thing that synergizes with you. Unless you’re out there, you’re just not going to see it.

Richard Lowe: Right. You’re not going to meet anybody staying at home and staring at your wall. If you’re selling something, a service, a product, I sell ghostwriting, I need to find people of a caliber. By that I mean they have a career that’s big enough that they know they need a book, they’ve got the money to buy a book, and they have a target for the book. I need those kinds of people, and that requires getting out of my shell and deciding I’m not going to be an introvert today, even talking to you. With that beard and stuff, it can be intimidating. It can be discouraging, and it’s not what I normally do well, but I’m doing it just fine. The networking part is always going to be a drain. I’m an introvert by nature. It’s always going to be a drain. So sure, that’s fine. It’s going to be a drain. Go do it anyway.

Networking Is the Gym

Anthony Markey: Yeah, going to the gym is also a drain. It’s going to tire you out, but you’re going to have to do something to make the gains you want, whether it’s growing your business, growing your network, or growing your muscles. You’re going to have to put some effort into it. Even for folks that are very extroverted, it can be exhausting. You go to a networking event, you meet thirty people, and twenty-five of them aren’t somebody that would really work with your business. But those five make it worth it. That one, even, in a lot of cases. There’s nothing easy about it. Some people have it easier, but we all go through the same kind of stuff. It doesn’t matter who you are. If you’re the kind of person that doesn’t get nervous at a networking event or walking up and having a conversation with somebody you’ve never met before, you might be a psychopath. That’s just part of the human experience.

Richard Lowe: Well, we’ve got people like Tony Robbins, who I think made it big because he can talk to anybody about anything at any time, and he makes stuff up as he goes. The stuff that he preaches, and I use that word loosely, really isn’t anything new or significant. He just talks very well and he convinces people very well. I don’t think there’s an introverted bone in his entire body. Just watch him talk.

Anthony Markey: Yeah, but you’re also looking at him now versus how many years he’s been doing it.

Richard Lowe: Oh, a long time. A long time.

Anthony Markey: So repetition also builds that muscle. I’m way better at this than I was nine years ago. My first job in sales was knocking on doors and talking to people. That gets you over it pretty quick. The first time you’re terrified. What are they going to do, come up and punch me in the nose? Well, that didn’t happen. Wasn’t so bad. The first time you get told off, you’re like, okay, well, I lived through it. And then you adapt and you grow. Now if I’m at a networking event and I see somebody sitting in the corner by themselves, I’m going to go talk to that person, because nobody else is. You get way more comfortable with it. Still uncomfortable. You’re still thinking, this might be the one that punches me in the nose. It just hasn’t happened yet.

Talking to Anyone, Anywhere

Richard Lowe: I tend to look for people who are kind of different. When I was photographing Renaissance fairs, I would find the people with the piercings and stuff that’s way out of my ballpark, definitely out of my box, and have a conversation. Gang member? Have a conversation. Make sure I’m not in a dangerous place, but still have that conversation. I learned a lot the couple of times I’ve done that. I used to live in Hollywood, right in the middle of where gangs were, and they all knew me as this harmless guy who liked to talk. When I dragged friends along, they were horrified. Why are you talking to that guy? He’s got a gun. It’s like, yeah, he’s not going to shoot me. Not out here, anyway. They were always nice and respectful in a certain way, and they expected the respect back, which is probably why I got along fine. It’s an interesting thing when you start getting out there.

Anthony Markey: Yeah, you do. You meet all kinds. People do surprise you. A lot of people are crazy, but everybody’s a little bit crazy. And the fun thing is those become anecdotes for other conversations. You’re like, this actually reminds me of something, and that really gets things rolling because it’s organic. It’s a shared experience. I had a conversation with somebody once and it took me five minutes to realize the guy’s nuts. I love those stories. I’ve had plenty of those, especially doing the door-to-door stuff. You see all kinds of things.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, the door-to-door stuff has kind of died out now. I think America’s a little more introverted now, a little more get-off-my-property mindset, especially with cameras everywhere. You’re on camera dozens if not hundreds of times a day if you go out at all. Every phone has at least two cameras, the ATM camera, the camera in the store, the cameras in all your equipment. You must be on fifty cameras a day. So I’ve gotten over being camera shy, because why bother?

Anthony Markey: Right. And then you find yourself talking to a doorbell half the time anyway.

Richard Lowe: It’s true. I could never be a DoorDasher for that reason.

The New Town Square

Anthony Markey: It’s different, but it’s more of the same. One of the things I’ve noticed over the years is I think we’re getting back more toward that small community town square vibe than when the internet first went crazy. Before, it was I’m going to rent a Lamborghini, pose in front of it, and sell a course. If you want to be like me, buy my course. Now people are creating their own little networks, their own little town squares, where you plug in the people that really help your business and you help theirs. It’s kind of like a BNI, but you’re choosing for yourself and you’re not paying for it. Somebody comes in, they’re asking you for something, and it’s, what, I know a guy. You’re going to go over here, you’re going to have a conversation with Richard, and he’s going to take care of you. I think that’s the direction more people are going. We’re adapting the new stuff to be more like the old stuff, and I’m really enjoying that.

What Is In It for Them

Richard Lowe: Yeah. One of the important things: my friend Royce Blake was in radio for many years, and now he trains people on how to speak. He tells me the key to copywriting is what’s in it for them. And when you’re networking, what’s in it for them? You don’t spend a lot of time talking about yourself. You spend a lot of time listening, and then asking them pointed questions about themselves. People love that. So if you’re going to network with somebody, open the conversation, after the introduction stuff, with: so how can I help you? Keep it in that lane. It’ll get around to you eventually. Just let it flow naturally, or it won’t, and then you know something else. You haven’t got a person who’s going to help you. But if you keep it focused on them, you’re going to have a lot more success than if it’s focused on you.

Push Them Past Their Three Minutes

Anthony Markey: Yeah. If you really want to surprise people, the best way to talk about yourself is to ask others questions about themselves. What I like to do is get them to go first. And when they inevitably say, oh, what about you, I stop them. First, let me ask a couple of questions. Don’t let it go to you. Put them back on the hot seat and start asking: who do you best partner with? What does this look like? Ask questions. Be genuinely interested. Because here’s the thing: most people don’t do that.

Richard Lowe: Very few. Very few.

Anthony Markey: Everybody you have a conversation with has their three minutes. Here’s what I’m going to say, this is what I need to get out, this is me. And then they say, okay, what about you? But if you push them past that three minutes and you start getting toward a ten or eleven minute mark, you start having people say, huh, I’ve never actually told anybody that before. And now they’re going to remember you, and they’re going to reciprocate by being as interested in what you have to say as they were in theirs. And if not, like you said, they were never going to do anything anyway, and you resolved that in ten minutes. You didn’t have to have five meetings to figure it out. So just ask others. Put it back on them and say, no, we’ll get to me. I yap about myself all the time. I only get to talk to you once, so tell me a little bit more about this. That’s what people want. Let them talk.

Richard Lowe: Let them talk. You don’t have to dominate the conversation. Active listening, where you’re listening and asking pointed questions. Then you’ll learn a lot more. You’re actually interviewing them to find out if they’re useful to you by asking them about themselves. And the interesting thing I found about letting people talk about themselves is they’re the ones who refer, not the ones you talk at endlessly. They’re the ones who talk to you, and then they remember you as the person who understands them, who listens to them.

Anthony Markey: Exactly. Like I said, there’s nothing new under the sun. It was in How to Win Friends and Influence People. You just let them go, and they’ll talk for thirty minutes and say you were the best conversationalist ever, and they did all the talking. Everybody, especially entrepreneurs, we all want to talk about ourselves, because we have to. If we’re not talking about ourselves, who’s going to talk about us? And if you can just let them, it’s going to really help you out, as opposed to trying to make sure you get your part in. I can explain in twenty seconds what I do, and they know enough about my business to be dangerous. So I want to spend the rest of the time, if I can, making them like me and remember me. That’s really where you’re going to find a lot of those real relationships and referral partners.

Know, Like, and Trust

Richard Lowe: That’s the old standard saying: know, like, and trust. They need to know you, they need to like you, and then they’ll trust you. If they don’t know you, they’re not going to trust you. If they don’t like you, they’re certainly not going to trust you. I just had a client who, within an hour of meeting me, was already paying me, and she didn’t know me. She trusted me right there. But that’s because she read through my website, which is another way of communicating. She got to know me through that, and through interviews like this one. Same with a previous client who became a really big client. He signed on within two weeks, and that’s actually pretty quick. But he looked at over 800 pages on my website first. I’ve got a lot of pages, all podcasts and everything. So he knew me before he talked to me. And that’s the cool thing about a website that’s aimed at people, not aimed at selling a product. You can have your website talk to people and not talk about you, but give them things they want to hear, things they want to know.

Anthony Markey: Yep. If you talk to any group of people, say it’s a hundred, there’s a certain percentage of them that you can’t mess it up. Just by knowing what you do, they need your help and they’re willing to ask for it. There’s also a same-size group of people that no matter what you do, you’re not for them. You can spend months and months working and it’s just never going to happen. Then you have the people in the middle that could go either way, and the better you get, the more of those you’re going to convert. So by putting stuff out there, saying here’s who I am, letting them get to know you, you’re going to start converting more of that middle.

Anthony Markey: It’s about having more conversations. If I told you that to be a millionaire, you just had to go talk to a hundred people this year, how quickly could you do that? If all you had to do to win was have thirty people tell you no, you’re going to go talk to thirty-one people so fast. And that’s how a lot of this is. You have what you do, and it’s important that they know. You do have to mention it at some point. But really make it about them. Everybody’s always out there talking about themselves. Everybody always wants to talk about what they’re doing and why they’re the best. Let them. Business owners, we want to talk about ourselves. Let them. Be different. Because if you’re just another face in the crowd, they’re not going to remember your business in a week, a month, a minute. They’re on to the next. So try to be that much different. Give it a shot at your next networking event. See what happens. Worst case, you’re going to get no referrals.

Talk to More People

Richard Lowe: So any final words for our audience? We’re coming up on the end.

Anthony Markey: No, I think we said it all. Talk to more people and be interested in them. That’s really the secret to a lot of stuff, not just business. The better you are at that, the better you are at whatever else you’re doing. Whether you’re a high schooler trying to get an internship over the summer, or you’re trying to decide what you want to do with your life, or you’re a new business owner wanting to get started, or you’ve been in business for thirty years and people definitely want to talk to you at that point. If you make it about them, then you can actually give them good advice, and it’ll really move the needle for them. So just talk to more people. That’s really the best advice I could give somebody.

Richard Lowe: Well, thank you. And thank you for coming back to our show. You’ve been on it before. I think you were one of the first. This has been the Leaders and Their Stories podcast. I’m Richard Lowe. You can find this at The Writing King. Thank you for attending.

Anthony Markey: Thanks for having me.

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