Erin Riley was born in New York City and escaped to Los Angeles at 19, where she fell into what became a 40-year career in the music and entertainment industries. She chose hit songs for major market radio stations, developed new artists, led the Philadelphia GRAMMY Chapter, dabbled in repertory theater, and opened Rock & Roll After School, a children’s music school that taught kids to write and perform original songs. In 2014, she delivered a TEDx talk on her work with children. Her memoir, A Dark Force, documents her experience surviving a 20-year marriage to a covert narcissist and has earned over 160 five-star reviews on Amazon.
Host: Richard Lowe | Guest: Erin Riley
Interview Transcript
Richard: Tell me about yourself.
Erin: I was born in 1959 in Manhattan. My mother was a couture fashion model, my father was an actor — not famous, mostly commercials and off-Broadway. I grew up in a very alternative scene on the Upper West Side. Both parents worked, so my brother and I pretty much raised ourselves. That helped me develop what I’d call a reptilian survival brain — a kid in the city, almost like being raised by wolves in a different environment.
Around 1971, my father promised to quit drinking if we moved out of the city. So we moved to central New Jersey — eight acres, a farm. Huge culture shock for a little Manhattan kid. My father was alcoholic and depressive, my mother was narcissistic, cold, untouchable. She eventually abandoned my brother and me as teenagers. I ended up running away to California on a bus by myself, stepped off to see the Hollywood sign, and restarted my life.
A Career in Music
Erin: I felt freer away from the trauma. I met a radio DJ, got interested in radio, and became a DJ in Los Angeles at 19. Then I moved to Santa Barbara for a full-time position, and my next step was a big one — music director at WMMR in Philadelphia. I chose all the songs that this major market rock station played. I got to make and break bands. I was only 23, but I was on the fast track up the music industry ladder.
I stayed there 10 years. It was the 1980s — big budgets, limos, concerts, parties with rock stars. It was a really fun time to be in the music industry. Then came file sharing. Music wasn’t a commodity a record company could sell anymore. The money disappeared. So I had to reinvent myself — I worked for the Grammys, the American Lung Association, theaters, and started my own children’s music school.
Behind the Scenes
Erin: Sounds like my life just goes great, right? Traumatic childhood, killer career. But behind the scenes, I’m still the same broken, damaged child looking for love I didn’t get from my mom. My jobs were great. My marriages were terrible. My first husband turned out to be an alcoholic with a criminal record and IRS debt — all discovered after the marriage. My second husband, who I was with for 20 years, turned out to be a diagnosable covert narcissist.
We had built a custom home in Panama over eight years to retire to. He stole it, moved another woman in, took all the retirement cash, everything I’d shipped there — and divorced me. I never saw him again. This man was a stepfather to my son for 20 years. It took me to the ground.
Writing A Dark Force
Erin: I had a lot to process. I started journaling, and I had so much material that I started asking friends how to write a book. Everyone said write an outline and a synopsis. I burst into tears because I didn’t understand where the book was going. Then a writer friend said, “Just pretend we’re sitting over a dinner table having a conversation. Write like you talk to me.”
That made sense. It took four months. It reads like a memoir and a manual — my personal experience of how I came to accept narcissistic behavior, combined with definitions and explanations of what triangulation is, what blame shifting is, what projection is, who’s most vulnerable to being targeted. I’ve sold over 700 copies self-published, with over 160 five-star reviews.
I get emails every week from people saying the book changed their life or saved their life. When you’re in it, it’s hard to understand what’s happening. But if you can take a step back and hear another person’s story with some explanation, it becomes clear.
Recording the Audiobook
Erin: Recording my own audiobook was like living it again. Fighting with my ex-husband in my own voice — I had to hire a male actor friend to do those parts. When I was having an argument with myself playing both sides, I couldn’t handle it. I’d start crying, drop to the ground, say turn off the recording and come back in a week. It took five months to record — longer than it took to write — because it was far too real.
Understanding Covert Narcissism
Erin: Having gone through this experience, I realized my mother’s narcissistic tendencies were the real influence. I used to think I picked emotionally unavailable men because of my alcoholic father. But my mother was more intentional and deliberate. My dad was just a sad guy. I repeated that pattern until I worked through the childhood issues.
The first thing you have to do is accept that predatory people exist. Not everyone has your best interests in mind. They create cognitive dissonance — you’re confused by contradictions. That sets up the susceptibility to gaslighting. Bit by bit, your confidence disappears because you’re being told you’re not good at this, and they’ll take care of everything. And you think that’s love.
At the end of the day, like they say in The Wizard of Oz — you’ve always had the power, my dear. You have to learn to love yourself, trust your gut, slow down, and feel your feelings.
What’s Next
Erin: I’m writing a six-episode limited series screenplay for the book. I think the message of covert narcissism is not well represented in media. What you see are physical abusers and overt narcissists. But there are people walking among us who look like quiet, helpful people with a hidden agenda. People would look at me and think I’m on top of the world, but behind the scenes it was terrible. This can happen to anybody.
I changed every name in the book, the street, the town, even the dog’s name. I joke that the people who didn’t do me wrong got to keep their names.
Learn more about Erin Riley and see hundreds of photos with classic rock artists at adarkforce.com.
Find Richard Lowe at TheWritingKing.com.
Video edited by Bonnie Dillabough.
One Response
Great chatting with you, Richard! Thanks!