Joe Rockey Jr. on Relationship-Based Sales and Writing Casino Sales Master

Joe Rockey Jr. has built 27 businesses and written a bestseller, “Casino Sales Master,” on a counterintuitive premise: that the hardest part of selling is not your pitch but the fact that everyone is raised to distrust sellers. His answer is to build relationships and trust consciously.

His conversation with Richard Lowe moves naturally from sales into the craft and purpose of writing a book, why to write one at all, how to align it with a goal, and why audiobooks are an asset most authors ignore.

Joe Rockey Jr. is a serial business creator, consultant, and international bestselling author whose firm, Elite Business Conversations, helps businesses thrive without the owner’s involvement.

His book “Casino Sales Master” teaches relationship-based selling, and he has built 27 businesses in his career, becoming an absentee owner or being bought out in all of them.

DISCUSS YOUR BOOK

Full transcript of the conversation follows.

Richard Lowe: Tell me about your book.

Joe Rockey Jr.: There are a million and a half sales books out there. Everywhere you look, someone’s on a stage talking about their sales system and why it’s special. And there are foundational principles you need for any sale to be successful. You need to know how to conduct a meeting, figure out what the person actually wants, not just what they say they want but what’s driving their decision. You need to understand who’s making the decision, how much money they have, all the basics. But here’s what rarely gets discussed because it’s really hard: the other side of that coin. Most people just leave that coin in the ground and pretend it doesn’t exist. And that’s the side that asks, “How do I actually get this person to want to tell me the truth?” We’re all raised from birth to lie to salespeople. If you’re thinking, “I don’t lie to anyone, I’m the most honest person ever,” I hate to break it to you, you do. As kids, we’re told to always tell the truth when adults ask us questions. But every single time we saw our parents interact with a salesperson, the first thing they did was lie. That’s the legacy of buyer-seller relationships. The default is to lie. So it doesn’t matter how great your sales process is. If you don’t know how to overcome that inherent distrust, you can’t succeed. And it gets more complex when you consider that 97% of people don’t even know how they form their own relationships. It’s like learning to ride a bike. Most people can do it, but they couldn’t explain how it works. That’s what my book is about. Teaching people how to consciously build relationships. Think about the three people in your life you’d trust with anything. You’d tell them your deepest secrets without hesitation. Now think about the countless others you’d never trust with anything or even want to see again. There’s a reason for that dynamic. If you can learn how to teach people to trust you, you can do the impossible, like getting a casino floor to willingly hand over money. Casinos aren’t in the business of giving away their money, but they will if you understand the relationship-building skills I talk about in “Casino Sales Master.”

From Coaching Course to Book

Richard: How many books have you written? Are there more coming?

Joe: I’ve written one book so far, but I plan to write more. The book actually evolved into a coaching course. The coaching course was my initial vision. I wanted to fix the broken relationship between buyers and sellers. The book came later as a way to formalize those ideas. The coaching course focuses on overcoming the stereotypes and negativity that come with sales, like the image of the pushy used car salesman. “You’re not leaving this lot until you buy the car I want you to.” That’s why so many people gravitate toward platforms like Amazon or eBay, because there’s no salesperson involved. But the reality is, when people want to buy something important, not necessarily expensive but meaningful, they still want to talk to a salesperson. You don’t see successful engagement ring stores operating entirely online. People want that human connection to make sure they’re getting it right. There’s a natural need for salespeople, but they need to be trained properly. My next book will focus on how to create businesses that can operate without you. I’ve built 27 businesses in my career, and I’ve either been bought out or become an absentee owner in all of them. That’s what my consultancy specializes in, helping businesses reach that level of independence.

Why Write a Book

Richard: Writing a book can be a transformative process. I’ve worked with clients who wanted to use their books as tools for achieving specific goals, whether it’s securing venture capital, landing a TED Talk, or creating a legacy for their family. Books are versatile tools.

Joe: Absolutely. And the process is no joke. I’m a speaker by nature, so I dictated my book initially. But the way you talk and the way you write are night and day. Turning spoken words into a polished manuscript took a lot of time and energy. I outsourced the editing, and it still felt like an uphill battle. There were moments when I thought, “Do I really want to keep going with this?” It’s like pushing a boulder up a hill. But I believed in the vision, to teach people how to build relationships and improve their lives, and that kept me going.

Richard: That’s something I hear from many of my clients. Writing a book is a massive commitment, but it can lead to incredible results. One of my first clients wanted a promotion, and his book ended up bringing him $30 million in venture capital. The CEO of his company even wrote the foreword.

Joe: That’s amazing. A book isn’t just a book, it’s a tool. Whether your goal is venture capital, speaking engagements, or creating a legacy, a book can open doors you didn’t even know existed.

Richard: I always start by asking clients, “What do you want this book to achieve for you?” Once we understand the goal, we can reverse-engineer the process. Whether it’s press coverage, TED Talks, or creating a memoir, the book is a means to an end.

Joe: For anyone listening who’s thinking about writing a book, you have to be crystal clear on your “why.” Otherwise it’s easy to get lost in the process and lose motivation. I’ve seen so many people start writing a book only to give up halfway through because they didn’t have a clear goal in mind.

Audiobooks and Maximizing Your Assets

Richard: It’s not just about finishing the book. It’s about making sure it resonates with the audience you’re trying to reach. If your audience is always on the go, an audiobook might be the way to go. Half of my sales come from audiobooks, because my audience prefers to listen rather than read.

Joe: So would you say the audiobook market is just as big as the print market?

Richard: Audiobooks are huge. For many authors, they represent a significant portion of their sales. They allow you to reach people who might not have time to sit down with a physical book. It’s about meeting your audience where they are.

Joe: For anyone who’s already written a book but hasn’t created an audiobook version, they’re leaving money on the table. It’s all about leveraging the assets you already have and finding new ways to maximize their value. Take something as simple as cereal. At its core, it’s just sugar and flour in a box. But then someone melts marshmallows, and suddenly you’ve got Rice Krispies Treats. Same product, whole new experience.

Richard: Your most valuable asset is your brain, your ideas, your perspective, your story. My job as a ghostwriter is to help you take those ideas and turn them into something that achieves your goals.

The Role of Vulnerability and Trust

Joe: If I had worked with someone like you, I could’ve saved so much time and stress. I’m not naturally inclined to sit behind a computer and write. My strength is in speaking and engaging with people. I’d much rather get on a plane and talk to an audience than wrestle with grammar and sentence structure. But the key is knowing how to align the book with your goals.

Richard: Let’s talk about vulnerability. A lot of people struggle with putting themselves out there, whether it’s in a book, a speech, or even a sales pitch. How do you help people overcome that fear?

Joe: It comes down to building trust and creating safe spaces for vulnerability. One of the biggest fears people have is being exposed, whether it’s their weaknesses, their mistakes, or even just their true selves. But vulnerability is what creates real connections. When you’re willing to open up and be honest, people respond to that.

Richard: I see that with my clients all the time. Writing a book requires vulnerability, especially when you’re sharing personal stories. But that vulnerability is also what makes the book powerful and relatable.

Building Relationships Consciously

Richard: Building strong, authentic relationships is at the core of so many things, from sales to leadership to personal success. How do you teach that in your coaching?

Joe: It starts with understanding how people form relationships in the first place. Most people do it instinctively. They don’t think about the mechanics. But when you break it down, there are specific skills and behaviors that make relationships thrive. Learning to listen actively, showing genuine interest in others, creating an environment where people feel safe to be themselves. Once you understand those principles, you can apply them to any situation, whether it’s closing a sale, leading a team, or connecting with a stranger at a networking event.

Richard: When you take the time to build trust and connect with people on a deeper level, everything else falls into place.

Joe: It’s not just about what you can get out of those relationships. It’s about what you can give. One of the things I love about coaching is seeing my clients achieve their goals and knowing I played a part in their success.

Closing Words

Joe: For anyone listening who’s thinking about writing a book or taking on a big challenge: don’t let fear hold you back. Surround yourself with the right people, focus on your “why,” and take it one step at a time.

Richard: I couldn’t agree more. Learn more about Joe Rockey Jr. at LinkedIn or at CasinoSalesMaster.com. Find Richard Lowe at TheWritingKing.com.

Quotable moments

Frequently asked questions

What is Casino Sales Master about?

Joe Rockey Jr.’s book teaches selling through relationship-building rather than the pushy tactics of outdated sales methods. Its premise is that buyers are conditioned to distrust sellers, so learning to earn genuine trust is what makes any sale possible.

Why does he say everyone lies to salespeople?

Because we are raised to. Children are told to tell the truth, but watch their parents reflexively deceive salespeople. That legacy of distrust is the real obstacle, and no sales process overcomes it without conscious relationship-building.

How does he think about writing a book?

As a tool tied to a specific goal, not a vanity project. He and Richard agree that clarity on your “why” is what carries you through a process Joe compares to pushing a boulder uphill.

Why do audiobooks matter?

Because they reach people who prefer to listen and can represent a large share of sales. Joe argues that an author with a book but no audiobook is leaving money on the table by not maximizing an asset they already own.