David Penny is a British author who was trade-published in science fiction as a young man, then stepped away from writing for decades to run a software company. He returned to writing in retirement and now self-publishes a historical mystery series set in Moorish medieval Spain. Through Facebook advertising and craft development, he went from selling a couple of books a week to roughly 100 a day — enough to live on without touching his pension.
Host: Richard Lowe | Guest: David Penny
Interview Transcript
Richard: Tell me about yourself.
David: I’ve always been a writer. One of my first recollections is sitting in the garden at about nine years old, writing a story about aliens and spaceships. I always wanted to be a writer. I’d go to school meetings and they’d say, “What are you going to do?” I’d say, “Be a writer.” They’d say, “Yes, but what are you really going to do?”
I was very fortunate — at 23, I got a book deal. That was followed by three others, all science fiction. My fourth book went into German translation, and it paid enough to buy an engagement ring and two pairs of walking boots. Then I stopped writing at about 30. Real life intruded — marriage, kids, more money needed. I ended up creating a software company, which I ran for over 30 years.
About ten years ago, I realized I’d always wanted to be a writer and I wasn’t writing. I was no longer reading science fiction, so I started writing what I read — mystery, crime, and thrillers.
From Trad Published to Indie
David: When I came back, the whole infrastructure had changed. When I first started, there was no alternative to the traditional route unless you wanted to vanity publish. Now there was self-publishing, and when I looked into it, I realized it was something completely different.
I joined the Alliance of Independent Authors and brought out my first books, which sank without trace — as most self-published books do. There’s a lot of skills you need to acquire. Everybody writes a book and is convinced it’s a work of genius. They put it out and wonder why they’ve only made three sales, all to family. People aren’t buying because they have no idea who you are or that you have a book.
A few years ago, I went back to my original publisher and got the rights reverted on my old novels. I bought secondhand copies off Amazon, read them, and thought, “Oh my God, I can’t possibly publish these.” They were truly awful. That’s when I realized I needed to learn about structure.
The Facebook Advertising Breakthrough
David: My road to Damascus occurred when I discovered Facebook advertising through Mark Dawson’s course. I didn’t start advertising until my third book was out — don’t do paid advertising until you have at least three books in a series.
I tried it for three months and lost about 300 pounds. I didn’t regard it as a failure — I regarded it as a learning process. I stopped completely, spent two or three months going back through the course, and worked out what I was doing wrong. What I found was that orange works. Every one of my adverts from that point on has a hint of orange. What you’re trying to do is stop people scrolling through Facebook in probably a tenth of a second. Something bold and saturated catches attention.
I created an advert — a silhouette of a guy on horseback with a sword riding out of the sunset with a castle behind. Someone posted, “You do realize this is Edinburgh Castle?” It had nothing to do with Moorish Spain. But it worked.
Almost immediately I started getting results. My sales went from a couple a week to 10, then 20, then kept climbing. Currently I’m selling roughly 100 a day, and my income has gone from basically nothing to a living wage. We haven’t touched any of our pensions.
I also use Amazon ads extensively, both in the US and UK. They’re cheaper than Facebook — if you put a $20/day budget into Facebook, it spends $21. If you put $10/day into Amazon, you’re lucky if they spend a dollar. But Amazon ads are getting more effective over time. A friend who writes cozy mysteries started doing Amazon ads at five books and is now doing as well as I am purely through Amazon advertising.
Writing Process: Fast Drafts with Loud Music
Richard: How do you get into a creative mood?
David: I sit at the keyboard, put on headphones, and play really loud rock music or trance music — the sort of thing you’d hear at a disco at 4am, which is what my son plays as a DJ. Most people can’t write to music, but I found it turns off my critical thought process.
When the writing is going really well, I’m not thinking about it. Don Winslow said at Harrogate that the best passages in his books are the ones he can’t remember writing. That’s what I’m trying to do — become a conduit for the words. It’s like meditation. You have to turn off your critical mind, because a lot of writers are too critical of what they’re putting down.
I do a minimum of 2,000 words a day. Sometimes 10,000 if it’s really going well. I get a first draft done without rereading any of it until the end. Then I go back and fix the mistakes, typos, and inconsistencies — where a character has blue eyes in one scene and green in another. Hemingway said write drunk, edit sober. It’s a bit like that.
To do that, I start with a detailed plot outline — about 20,000 words for a 100,000-word book. That’s always going to change. Characters crop up. The one I’m writing now has changed more than anything I’ve ever done. You have to accept your carefully crafted outline is nothing more than a rough skeleton on which you’re putting clay to create a sculpture. Without that outline, I couldn’t even start.
Advice for New Writers
David: If you want to be a writer, there is only one way — sit down and write. Whatever your preference: fountain pen, dictation, keyboard. You cannot create anything unless you practice. Accept that writing is both an art and a craft. You can learn the craft. What’s more difficult to learn is the art. I’ve accepted I’m a craftsman more than an artist, and that’s what can be most easily improved. Sit down, write lots, write rubbish. Then realize it’s rubbish, work out how to improve it, and then write good.
Learn more about David Penny at davidpenny.com.
Find Richard Lowe at TheWritingKing.com.
Video edited by Bonnie Dillabough.