John Papaloni: Turning Passion into Profit, Time & Again

John Papaloni
John Papaloni: Turning Passion into Profit, Time & Again

 

My name is John Papaloni I am CEO of Papaloni Capital, serial entrepreneur with a Marketing, Hospitality & Real Estate background. Currently I have my Real Estate License as well as my Mortgage License.

I’ve always been passionate about entrepreneurship with my 1st business at the age of 15, a DJ business which served me well and I was able to get a Co-Op placement at a local radio station called Hot 103.5 (now Z103), a dream of mine. The opportunity gave me a wide variety of skills in radio broadcasting, and helped open many opportunities, including DJing at live radio broadcasted events.

In the next phase of my career after college graduation, I started a Print and Marketing Business – KMG Digital Inc. My 1st big win was landing a major client that helped me validate my business model. It was Bally Total Fitness and that big client win led to many more wins down the road, resulting in making the list of the Top 100 Print Businesses in North America.

As part of my expansion strategy, I ended up creating 2 separate businesses to service different markets: wholesale and the end user. In October 2007, I had sold both businesses as I wanted to pursue other creative avenues that I was passionate about, leading me to create ClickGTA/ClickRadio.

ClickGTA was an online media company that gave people info of events that were going on in the Greater Toronto Area and provided them with pictures and videos from the events so attendees would be able to download them to post on their social media feeds, generating brand awareness for ClickGTA.

ClickRadio became the extension to ClickGTA, providing the same level of service that your FM dial would provide, but through the internet or your mobile device. The difference between our programming and FM programming is that we focused on music heard inside nightclubs and even worked with nightclub owners to broadcast live on multiple nights. We also broadcasted live at popular events in the Greater Toronto Area such as the annual Beer Fest. We were the pioneers of implementing live video & audio streaming, before it started getting popular across all the social media platforms.

In 2013, although profitable I decided to close the business due to personal reasons that took me away from the workforce for a couple years.

In 2015, I pursued my Real Estate License and am currently a Real Estate Agent servicing varying parts of the Greater Toronto Area and Niagara Region and my business has grown substantially each year helping 1st time home buyers, families and investors buy and sell residential homes.

I have created Papaloni Capital Inc. a fund which is designed to create opportunities for people to invest in the real estate market with myself as a Joint Venture / Fund

Please leave a comment at the end of this article.

Interview transcript John Papaloni

Richard Lowe  00:00

Good day. Good day. I’m Richard Lowe, the writing King, and I’m here with John Papa Loney. He’s the CEO of Papa Loney capital. And we’re going to talk about his business and his what he does, and I’m gonna hand it over to you to introduce yourself.

John Papaloni  00:13

Oh, thanks, Richard. I am John poplin. He’s currently CEO of pop only capital Inc, I have my real estate license and mortgage license as well, which is kind of complementary to what I’m doing. I was I mean, I’ve been in the real estate business for the last eight years, and I kind of grew up and around it, and my parents were landlords. And I thought it’d be a great opportunity because of watching people go through the struggles, especially with the change in interest rates and stuff. And there’s a lot of people want to get into the real estate market, but don’t necessarily have the means like they might have the downpayment, but don’t qualify for the mortgage, they might have the ability to qualify for a mortgage, they don’t have the downpayment. So they’re looking for ways to get in, not necessarily for them to move in, but as an investment, which is why I created Papa when he capital Inc, is a way for people to invest with me in joint ventures and stuff like that, or go through many avenues where there’s a joint venture into a real estate portfolio, or whether it’s a private equity loan, like if somebody wants to invest in mortgages, because I do those as well. So it’s an opportunity to be in the market without having to physically own it directly yourself.

Richard Lowe  01:22

sounds very interesting. What got you into that business?

John Papaloni  01:26

Well, I mean, the market itself, interests me real estate interests me, like I said, I saw people struggling to get it, I find people who’ve been, you know, law investments, and stuff like crypto not because they want to, but it’ll be one of those, you know, gotta get rich, quick kind of things and get the money to buy my home or, you know, I mean, and it’s like, so the need to be in the business is there I mean, need to be in real estate is there it is something that is not guaranteed, because nothing in life is guaranteed. But it is one of the more safest investments. And it’s a way I can help other people get into the market. And I have a passion for the industry. Now being in as an agent for the years, I found that my passions don’t necessarily align with the job. But I have an opportunity to use my experience to expand. So my focus is really helping people with the investment side of it, and more than just finding some house with granite counter.

Richard Lowe  02:24

I see. It’s very interesting. Are you more of a flipper, or you ended to help me? How’s that work?

John Papaloni  02:29

Well, I’m a buy and hold guy. Yeah, that’s why when you’re investing with me, it’s a seven to 10 year contract. Unless you’re doing private equity loan, if you’re willing to do a private equity loan, then that can do two to three years, because that’s usually the average loan.

Richard Lowe  02:44

Okay, good. That’s very interesting. I’m not very up to date on real estate. I’ve lived in an apartment my whole life. My parents had a house and they they actually wound up on walking away from it. And the irony was they walked away from it just walked and the state grabbed it, sold it. And it was $150,000 sitting in the house that they could go get, but I couldn’t find them. Yeah, got it. That was that was a rather interesting situation. There was money there. That would have helped them greatly, but they couldn’t get it. Or they should find some I’ve told I would have told them how to know when they were going to do it. You should just find some one of those places like one 100 wells will sell your house, whatever.

John Papaloni  03:27

Yeah, it’s true. Like, and that’s the thing, right? Sometimes what happens is people feel so stressed out, they just throw their hands up in the air and just give up right? Like it’s, and that’s not always the right answer. But when you’re in that kind of stress, I mean, outside of that stress looking in, it’s easy to say you should have done this should have done that. But sometimes when you’re feeling it, you feel stuck and don’t know what to do. So you just throw your hands up, and then it ends up being the wrong move. Sometimes it’s the right move, but sometimes it’s the wrong one.

Richard Lowe  03:55

I think it helped their stress a lot. Yeah, exactly. And that there were there at so you know, it was it was time for them to do something they couldn’t afford the loan. So they had to do something, I’m sure.

John Papaloni  04:07

Well, that’s what we’re where I come in, right. That’s the opportunity I have, right, like if someone wants to be in the business where they see cash flow, because they want to buy cash flowing properties, you get the cash flow there and you have worryfree investments in the way that you don’t have to worry about the loans, you don’t have to worry about anything because it’s the way the joint venture works is not just one person’s investment. Second, raising funding to buy the building. Like I usually tend to buy a building, like the lowest I look at is 12 units. And I trying to go to More like 24 or 48 and stuff like that. So there’s multiple people invested. So there’s a big cushion to avoid that problem, which is why I don’t care about the interest rates because the interest rates, the only thing that matters with the interest rates, whether it goes up or down is the math I need to know on what it takes to acquire it. The interest rate goes up, the offer goes down, interest rates go down, the offer goes up and This is cyclical. So it’s not something like, like, it’s one of those things where it’s went up, it’s never going down or it’s gone down. It’s never coming up. For 40 years, it’s been going up and down like a yo, yo. So the only time you lose in real estate is when you have to walk away or sell. If you can hold on to it, you never lose. But that’s, and that’s what it boils down to.

Richard Lowe  05:20

Yeah, I’ve heard the same thing about stocks you go into for the long term, you don’t go in for the short term, with

John Papaloni  05:25

the assumption that stocks has the potential to hit zero. Real Estate does not rank as unless you sell regular real estate, even worst case scenario. If nobody wants to house at all, you always have the land, the land is always worth something. Worst case scenario, you keep collecting rents. So you’re still earning something where when a stock is at zero, it’s zero. There’s no coming back.

Richard Lowe  05:48

At true. That’s true. That’s true. Yeah, cryptocurrencies even worse. Yeah. I’m not a big fan. Although I do wish I bought Bitcoin when it was down at you know, in the 20s, just just because it would, but I’m not a gambler. So I didn’t ever I never did that. Can you? That’s an interesting question. Could you buy a house with Bitcoin?

John Papaloni  06:13

There’s numerous debates on that. And it really there is, there is possible ways to do it. But it’s very, very hard. Because the seller has to be willing to accept Bitcoin. And most of the people who are pro real estate and have invested in real estate their whole life, they believe in real estate, not Bitcoin. And most of them are not going to want that. Now you have to find someone who’s young enough, who understands it and is excited about it, that decides that they’re going to sell their home. And yes, they want Bitcoin. How many of those people exist?

Richard Lowe  06:48

Probably that many? Yeah, it’s

John Papaloni  06:51

like it’s been done before in Canada that I know of. But again, it’s like you said, the number of stories I’ve heard that it’s been done is probably on one hand.

Richard Lowe  06:59

Yeah, I suppose you could always take the Bitcoin out in dollars and sell it. That way. You don’t have to use Bitcoin.

John Papaloni  07:06

Yeah, that’s the issue. The reason why you use Bitcoin, because it’s hard to cash out of them.

Richard Lowe  07:11

It’s hard to cash out and it’s not directly traceable.

John Papaloni  07:14

Yeah. And that becomes the other problem. When you get the Bitcoin you cash out, and now using it towards real estate, you got to prove where the funds came from. Right? And that’s how do you answer that like, which is why when you’re buying a house, the first thing they say is, make sure your deposit has been into a bank account for at least 90 days. Because anything less than 90 days, they’re gonna ask you where the money came from.

Richard Lowe  07:40

Interesting. Interesting. Yeah. Yeah, very interesting. It’s a whole new world to me, I knew somebody who, the place that he used to live, he was a flipper, he would buy property and then flip. And he thought he was going to make a fortune. He, he just got a property and he had an $80,000. Profit, he thought, but then of course, he had to fix the house. And that $80,000 to turn into a loss real fast. And he never was able to make a living at it. Well, that’s

John Papaloni  08:11

the thing. It’s hard, everyone wants to do what they see on HGTV, and HGTV makes it look so simple. But again, it comes down to real estate combs, like you make your profit, the majority of the times you make your profit on the buy, and especially if you’re flipping it, because you don’t have the time, right, because if you’re flipping it, it’s a short turnaround, which means you have to buy below market, which is why most people will flip do not use an agent, they go to homeowners and to me, this is gonna sound bad. But to me, I believe the idea of flipping is that you have to take advantage of people. And in a way, it’s not the person buying fault is the person selling because the person you’re looking for is the person who’s not going to be any wiser. And then your whole pitch to them is you’re going to knock on the door. Have you thought about selling my thought about it, but the fees are expensive? Well, hey, why don’t we do a private deal where I can pay you X, Y, Z, and we don’t have to worry about agents and you can save the commission. Now why is that person so anxious to save you commission doesn’t cost them anything? Because what you’re doing is you’re finding the homeowner, and there’s people out there that are like this that are such sticklers and other people collecting commissions that they would rather burn the place than you earn a commission. So they would they don’t like they think they’re saving money. They all you drove the price up and that’s why the you know, real estate’s don’t drive the price up. It’s the market that drives the price up. But people are so such sticklers on paying that, that it eats at them and they can’t get past it. So now they hear I don’t have to pay an agent. They’re excited. Let me sell it. Now. What’s the benefit of that the investor? Why does the investor have to do that? Very simple because what happens is if your home’s worth a million dollars, My offer is going to be to you somewhere between 707 50 now and I say, don’t have to worry about Commission’s, now I get excited problem is if you sorted through an agent and even if he got you 900,000, calculate the commission on that that might be 45,000. As an example, even if it’s 50,000, you got 850 versus 750. So you’re not really ahead. But for me as a private equity, you know, private buyer, I need that 750, because I need to put in the $200,000 savings into the renovation. So now, after the $200,000 renovation, I’m at 950. And 950 was the market value that we just determined, because you always ask for a little bit more than market value. It was the actual market value of that house before it got renovated. So now I bought at 950, add 50 grand for commissions, as we said, we’re at a million, my profit is one point is 150,000. Because it sold it for 1.150. And there is how you make money. But you have to find those deals, and they’re very hard and people are very impatient. And they’re always rush, rush, rush, rush. And sometimes, sometimes you’re looking for that guy that I just told you. And believe it or not, I mean that guy sounds stupid. But there are guys out there that are very well informed. And that’s why they don’t need the agent. And what ends up happening is you think you’re getting the deal. And you got him. He got you. And you bought that house at 950. And it was only worth 950. And there’s your loss,

Richard Lowe  11:25

right? Are you this guy looked for people who? Basically we’re in a fire sale situation? Yeah, I think you went to auctions a lot. And

John Papaloni  11:35

I was deals it sometimes they are. But they’re not always deals. And that’s what it comes down to. And that’s why it goes back to what I said working with an agent is important. It doesn’t mean you have to buy on market deals. You could buy off market deals, but you need somebody who knows the market that you’re looking at inside out. And they will know because just because it’s an auction doesn’t mean you’re getting a steal. Sometimes the I’ve been to places where I’ve seen auctions actually sell for more than what the actual market would have sold for.

Richard Lowe  12:05

I believe in his case, it’s a thing that one of the things that drove him batty was he bought a house paid cash for it, I think, and he couldn’t get it permitted to do the two rentals, the perimeters wouldn’t do it.

John Papaloni  12:18

Absolutely. Sometimes there’s restrictions. And that’s the other benefit. You have to know where to research that. And you have to have your plan in place. If your plan requires you to turn a one story house into a two story house to make money and you’re not going to get the building of the area doesn’t support that I mean, the permit not the building, then you have no hope, you’re not going to be able to get the price of a two story for a one story. It just doesn’t work. Right. So there’s a due diligence that’s required. And and that’s why there’s not an instant flip. But a lot of and again, people get lucky, right sometimes that HGTV story does happen. And what I’ve learned by that is that sometimes you get in a heated market like took take 2021 You could buy a home in January of 2021 for a million dollars, I just guess like using that number. And you buy it for a million dollars, you put in $200,000 in renovations, by the time you’re done is September. Now what happens is in September, the old house would sell for 1.2 by the appreciation, but the renovated houses sell for 1.4 or five. And sometimes you have somebody who loves that, that design you did so much, they’ll actually pay 1.5. So now you made the money because they overpaid, because they fell in love and got emotional about the place. So you did the right rentals. And but what happens if you’re the guy who bought December 2021. And then you did the flip, you’re ready to sell in June 2022, when they’ve already raised the interest rate three times. And that’s where people started getting really burned.

Richard Lowe  13:49

And I gather the markets really tight right now. Yeah,

John Papaloni  13:52

now there’s still opportunity, but you really need to get it and again, at the end of the day would have boils down to whatever you’re doing. Your contingency plan has to be that I’m willing to hold on to it. And if it’s one of those things that I need to solve is within eight to nine months because the interest rate is going to kill me and I don’t have the money. Not a good buy. Hold off.

Richard Lowe  14:15

Yeah, I can I can see that. You’re doing a gamble then. And that’s

14:20

exactly. And the casinos more fun. I’ll tell you that.

Richard Lowe  14:23

Yeah, yeah. I don’t gamble. I do occasionally buy a lottery ticket. But I like Sue that gambling. It’s more like watching watching the money go down the toilet, and it’s kind of entertaining.

John Papaloni  14:33

Exactly. And that’s my point, though, at least with the casino. You’re playing some form of a game. And I mean, I’m saying if you’re going to do that flip in the scenario I told you, then then you know what, at least the casino you’re playing a game not chasing after contractors who don’t show up. Right? So it’s, it’s not something you should do. I’m not a believer in a flip. I don’t mean that you can’t make money sometimes. But nobody talks about the time they lose. They always talk about the time they win. And I’m willing to bet if you look at this There’s more losing than there’s winning.

Richard Lowe  15:03

Yeah, I wrote a ghost wrote a book for a guy who actually does a property manager. And what he does is he takes over the mortgage, and then runs the property management. So he, he rents it for mortgage rate plus some percentage, I think it’s, you know, 50% or 40% or something. So he rents it out. And then he either buys it, or he runs it for as the owner. And he’s got a little bit quite little good little business running. Just doing that.

John Papaloni  15:33

Yeah, exactly. At the end of the day, everything requires work. There’s no simple, easy way to do something. There’s no such thing as I woke up rich this morning. It’s smaller things you do consistently, which build over time to become a bigger and bigger Empire over a long period of time. And I mean, every success has been a 10 year success, every overnight success has been a 10 year of success, right? Because what happens is we see them when they just popped up. But the reality is they’ve been doing it for 10 years to pop, but

Richard Lowe  16:05

I’m finding that as a as a ghostwriter, a book coach, I find that I have to market myself and the marketing is over time. I’ve got people who come to me after finding an article that I wrote four years ago, this the spitting on Facebook, and how did you find me read this article? I wrote that four years ago, I got buried, and somebody I’m trying to close right now. And it’s like, this is weird that he’s reading this, but it’s, it’s the buildup. Yeah.

John Papaloni  16:31

Yeah, exactly. Right. And that’s why the buy and hold works. Because at some point in time, it goes statistic short. I’m overtime overtime over time, you need patience. And if you want to invest in something, that’s quick, try your luck with Bitcoin. See what happens. Right? You may win. You may not I mean, but real estate’s never been quick. It’s always been long. Look, let’s, let’s be honest, let’s look at history. Anything that turns out, has always been slow and steady and boring. It seems like the simple boring things that you repeat over and over and over tends to be the things that turn out

Richard Lowe  17:04

a part of this, you build a reputation, you build up equity, all kinds of different things come into play when you’re doing it over time. You’re trying to do a quick, you’re making shortcuts, you’re taking Gamble’s and risks, that’s it may pay off, it probably won’t. It depends on what kind of person you are. I tend to like the long term. Although sometimes I want the short term.

John Papaloni  17:24

Yeah, I get it. Everybody wants to short term, right? Because it’s obviously instant need for instant pain, not a need and instant pain, because we’re always feeling pain. And that’s what why we’re doing what we’re doing it because we’re trying to find a solution to that pain. And if you have an instant reward that the pain goes away quick. Right. So now the other thing I want to caution, anybody look at that, right? Because someone says oh, it real estate’s the best investment, I’m gonna go out there, I’m gonna buy it. And then also, no, it didn’t work for me. Yes, because you got to know what to do to do diligence. So that’s why I said, always use a realtor, not because I’m a fan of paying commissions or not paying commissions, or I even care about any of that. It’s the due diligence, either, you know, especially for the first few times, after you’ve done it a couple of times, you kind of learn what you’re looking for. So that makes it a little bit easier. But I mean, if you’re in the first, if you’re buying your first home, our first investment property, you don’t want to do that alone. And the second thing I caution on if you’re doing a rental unit, find out which dates are landlord friendly. Now, that sounds like an encouraging skill, you know, scum lords. And that’s not what I mean. And I’ll give you an example, right, because I’m a realtor in Ontario. And my message to people is, if you’re buying a home to live by in Ontario, if you’re buying a home as an investor, do not buy in Ontario. And my reason is we are not landlord friendly. And right now the landlord and tenant board, which I call the tenant board, because every time they change the rules, it’s big, you know, it’s just screwing that the landlord more and more. So now it’s all tenant rights, and no landlord rights as far as I’m concerned. So with that being said, to if someone stops paying the rent in Ontario, there’s an 18 month backlog in the system. And without it, you know, so it takes 18 months to even see it get to the court level for eviction. Now, if you go there, and you put one number wrong, like if your rent renews on the first of the month, I’m supposed to give you the notice by the 30th. If I gave you the notice by the second, after 18 months out wrong date, your paper gets shredded, come back, try again. And I gotta wait another 18 months if it’s still a backlog, so you can actually go to three years without getting paid. Right. And that’s really scary. So that’s why it’s too risky to invest, you know, in, you know, in places that are not landlord friendly. Right here in Florida. My favorite place?

Richard Lowe  19:40

Yeah, it’s so landlord friendly, that it’s almost unethical. People getting evicted after a seven day notice.

John Papaloni  19:48

Yeah. And I’m all for that if it’s for the right reason. Oh, yeah. Yeah, here’s my point, right if you decide that you don’t want to charge $1,000 rent, and like If you’re charging 1000, you decide not you want to 1000 Screw that tenant. I’m not for that. I’m not for that at all. That’s why I said, I’m not pushing the record. I mean, I’m what I’m pushing is the fact that it’s got to be fair and reasonable thing for both sides. And the minute something’s not reasonable for whichever side, that relationship needs the break.

Richard Lowe  20:23

Yeah, my rent increase of 112 years ago was 30%, which is huge. In California. The most rent increase ever got was 3%. Because it’s all rent controlled. I used to live in California. But yeah, if you don’t pay the rent in Florida, you’re out within a couple of weeks. It’s really you’re gone. And they will have the sheriff there. To make sure of it. Yeah. Very tenant unfriendly. I think that’s going to change pretty fast. Because it’s gone way too far.

John Papaloni  20:51

Well, that’s the thing, right? Like I again, I believe in fairness, I’m okay. I’ll be honest, I’m okay. With the controlled rent increases. That’s not what bothers me. What bothers me is when somebody decides they’re not going to pay, and they’re in your house, destroying your house, and you can’t get them out? Of course, that’s the rate control, just like inflation, if inflation is 5%, rent should be fine. Angry should be 5%. If inflation is 2% rate and rent control could be 2% Doesn’t matter, right? Can you just keep up with inflation? So you’re making the same money consistently. And somebody’s not going from I got a decent job to all my paycheck went to rent, and I don’t know what else I’m going to do. That’s extreme. Right. Like, and it’s, you know, I mean, there’s got to be some sort of balance.

Richard Lowe  21:35

Yeah, they lost almost 40% of their tenants within a matter of a couple of months, when they raise the rent that much. Just the place was it goes down, because nobody could afford it. And when you could move across the street, and save 30%? Well, you know, a lot of these a lot of people don’t have a lot of belongings, so it was easy to move.

John Papaloni  21:54

Yeah, see, I liked a biplane. And I like to have the same tenants as long as possible. I mean, I’m not upset when they leave. If they have to leave, they have to leave. But I’m the type, like, I look at my parents, they had the same home. And they had the tenants there for 20 and a half years. Right. So I’m fine with that. And I’m finally keeping up with inflation. I again, my my, you know, as long as rents paid on time they maintain the property, relative I mean, I’m not talking about wear and tear. It doesn’t matter who lives in a property, whether it’s me or a tenant, there’s gonna be wear and tear, of course, but I mean, I’m talking about if you decide you’re playing darts, and you missed the board, and you hit the wall, I expect you to fix that. Right?

Richard Lowe  22:35

Yeah. Yeah, here’s the maintenance person was telling me he went into a room tenant place because of a leak and went in there. Obviously, the leak had been going on for months and months and months, and it was just carrying water out. There was bold and stuff. He said, Dude, you’re paying for this. We’re not. Because you could have called us when it first started leaking. But you’ve ignored it now for at least six months. And that’s still ongoing. But you got to maintain your own place a little bit, at least. Yeah.

John Papaloni  23:10

And that’s the thing, something like get the book, part of the maintenance thing I was talking about, you know, before we have to have money aside for it, right, because the landlord roofs are going to break. They’re only meant the last 15 years.

Richard Lowe  23:22

Less than Florida, I think because of humidity.

John Papaloni  23:26

Well, you know what? I’m not sure which ones were it’s because we get snow. So between the two, I’m not sure which ones were a snow or anyways, but either way we’ll even say if it’s 10 years, right? You know, and if it’s a house that the average Roof Repairs is going to be about $3,900. So you know, that’s what it’s going to cost. Do that over 10 years. That’s $390 a year, you should have that part of the rent. $390 of that profit should be set aside. 10 years comes down the road tenant goes hey, there’s a leak in my bedroom is the roof. Call the roofer get a new roof tenants happy because wow, I called him he cared and I don’t have a leaky roof. My stuff’s not getting damaged. landlord says hmm, tenant called me. So now I’m not replacing my whole house because it got destroyed. Everybody wins.

Richard Lowe  24:10

Yeah, my maintenance people told me on the managers told me report things immediately. Don’t wait. Because we got maintenance people will fix them. Right away. They do they fix them same day or next day. But if you wait, and it builds up like this one guy who waited six months to report it, it might come down on you. And then he’s stuck because if he moves out, he’s still stuck for it.

John Papaloni  24:33

Yeah. And this is the other thing I look at it. I believe and this applies to all business not we’re not just talking about real estate, any business. There’s too many people out there that see everybody’s either competition or the enemy. And it doesn’t really work that way. Because if you do it that way, you’re in a constant struggle, always an uphill climb. Right like stop seeing competition as the enemy stop seeing people was the enemy. Now I asked people I’ve asked somebody before, like a landlord that I had a conversation with and said, you have a retail store, you own a retail chain? You know, I mean, you’re doing pretty well. Yeah. Well, if somebody comes into your store, you know, I bought a pair of shoes, and they set off as Brown has the wrong Brown and there’s a scuff in it, you’re gonna say, oh, fuck you pardon my language. And no, you’re not gonna say that. No, no, no, that’s a customer. We got us make sure we get it. Right. Okay, so for the shoes at your store, it has to be right. So why is it at your building? When they tell you they got something leaking? It Screw You ungrateful tenant. Why isn’t those tenants are your clients, they’re your shoe clients, except this time, your shoes is the house, not the shoes.

Richard Lowe  25:49

And when you’re paying rates, Florida rates are not cheap, and you’re paying 2500 or $3,000 for two bedroom a month. You expect service. That’s not petty cash.

John Papaloni  25:59

But that’s why it goes back to what I say being collaborative with people, whether it’s business, or whether it’s being in collaboration with your tenant, it collaboration, you’ll always grow bigger as a group together. Yep. Then you will tend to be the, you know, the Lone Ranger.

Richard Lowe  26:15

Yep, yep. Yeah, it’s very interesting, very interesting business. I’m, of course it goes writer and I have the same thing. I’m, sometimes the book doesn’t quite come out the way the client wants, I’m going to make it right. And, you know, we’re going to talk and we’re gonna go through it, and we’re gonna revise it, and we’re going to make the book the way they want it to be, because that’s what they’re paying for. And makes it most most of the time that’s on me. Sometimes we split it half and a half, you know, just depends on what the problems are, and so forth situation. But that’s an important part of being in business, I think is understanding the fence. You know what I mean? That like, Okay, this guy is being reasonable, you know, it’s not right. I’m going to go out of my way to fix it, or this guy’s being unreasonable. It’s definitely his fault, then we’re going to have a different conversation. You have to be aware of that.

John Papaloni  27:07

Absolutely not. I’m gonna ask you something with you being a ghostwriter. I mean, you’re in an interesting business.

Richard Lowe  27:12

I am. Yeah, like, it’s, I’m

John Papaloni  27:14

fascinated with what you do to be honest. Because one of my dreams is always to write a book. Now I got a lot of things in my head. But it’s a matter of sitting down and putting it on paper. And no many times have said, Oh, yeah, I’m gonna do I’m gonna do it. I load up the computer, stare at the screen, you just got that? Face.

Richard Lowe  27:33

Those are the people who hire me.

John Papaloni  27:36

Now, eventually, I’m going to get serious about it. But But yeah, like, so it’s fascinating, right? And my problem is thinking of the words, rarely think of what to put down what’s interesting, what’s not interesting, we’re gonna take out we’re gonna put in, and where do I start? Because let’s, let’s be honest, the book is really about a story, a story that that can lead to something like there’s always that hero, that, you know, there’s always the villain in the story. And it’s one of those things that that’s the part I don’t know what it is. And sometimes I just blob away and have no damn idea what it is. And somebody says, hey, that’s the point. What’s the point? Right, like,

Richard Lowe  28:13

well, that’s what I do, is I have a lot of interviews up front, where I listen to you say, you were going to do it. And I would just listen and take notes, lots of notes, recorded, of course, and learn about you. I’m learning about you, and not necessarily your subject, but about you because I need to write the book and if I were you, and that’s tough, almost being an actor, in many ways, so I have to know your, the way you speak. I got one client who wanted to write his book with with swear words and things because that’s the way he speaks. Interesting. And and, you know, most most clients don’t want that. But he wanted to have not hard you know, not swear words every five minutes. But, but review page, but occasionally and off, it’s important points, they damn, you know. And that was different. And, you know, another one was from the south with the drawl and everything. And he wanted that to come through that culture from the south. And it’s something that I have to catch up on, of course, I do the interviews, I catch up, catch on, I do the interviews, then do the first chapter. And then we revise it first chapter until done, that can take some time because I’m not you know, you’re gonna get it, you’re gonna go, this is not what I wanted. That’s normal. And we’re gonna sit down and we’re gonna go through it on the back, it’s probably going to be 5000 words, that won’t take us that long, and I’ll fix it and you’ll get it back again. Okay, this is closer, but it’s still not right. We’ll do that. Again. This is much better, but you didn’t quite catch me here. Good. And then when we’re done with that chapter, the next chapter one be a little closer, so there won’t be as much and then the next chapter a little closer, and then so forth until the end of the book. By then, you know, we’re just banging it out, because I’ve got it and it’s an interesting process. And it does mean you take your eat my take, I have to take my ego, put it over on the table and leave it there because you’re criticizing what I’m doing. And that’s hard to take sometimes. And it took a lot. It was a while before, I’m sure every ghostwriter goes through this where, or every author who gets edited, same thing is, I get a lot of criticism, but it’s not criticism of me. It’s criticism of the work. That’s why you have to look at it is you’re criticizing what I wrote. You’re not telling me I’m a bad writer, you’re telling me that this is crap. And it needs to be fixed. And that’s okay. That’s part of the process.

John Papaloni  30:39

Yeah, you know what, you’re absolutely right. People take things personal. Because what happens is, there’s a lot of people out there that associate themselves with the work as well. Right, where they believe they are their work, and what ends up happening in a way that’s a sad state. But the reality is, hey, we’re brought up that way, right? Like, let’s be honest, the whole, go to school, get a good education, so you can get a good job. And you don’t mean like that, like, what are we being programmed for, are being told us that the you know, you work hard, you get your promotion, and then you get a pay increase? And when you get the pay increase, your pension grows, and you don’t and that’s the kind of story we’re being told. So therefore, how do you get promoted, you work very hard. So now when somebody turns around, you got this piece that you wrote, and you put that and say, Look at my work, and I worked hard on that. And the gentleman said, Yeah, I don’t like it. Nelson. Yeah. But what do you mean? Rick is attached to it? Because that’s what brought up.

Richard Lowe  31:34

Of course, writers suffer from something all creative people do. And probably everybody does. Something called impostor syndrome. Yes, I get that. That is a big deal for creative people, is, you just don’t, you just don’t think that you could have done this. And you think it’s bad. So every time you give something back to the client, he’s gonna hate it. He’s gonna hate it. I’m sorry. He’s gonna hate it. And then he gets it. And he? Of course, he doesn’t hate it. He might. He might not necessarily like it. 100% But he’s not gonna fire you almost certainly, unless you’re just terrible. He’s not going to. Usually the fire, ghostwriters get fired because attitude. Got it. Don’t get fired, because everybody knows we’re gonna revise this, you clue them. And we’re gonna revise this 15 times before it’s done. But if you got a bad attitude about it, probably the same as you and your business. The attitude is what will kill you, or make you?

John Papaloni  32:28

Yeah, absolutely. Right. Like, we’re a people business. Right. And people want to deal with people they know, like, and trust. And if you have an attitude, that’s a sure way for them to not like you or trust you.

Richard Lowe  32:40

Right? Right. Although sometimes, you got to make sure you’re not walked on. So sometimes that attitude does need to come out. And like you when you’ve crossed the line, dude.

John Papaloni  32:52

Well, there’s a difference between arrogance and confidence. And I think that’s the line that creates that.

Richard Lowe  32:58

Yeah, yeah. But the ego thing is something that I had to learn. And I’m sure every ghostwriter has to learn, you have to put it aside, because I’m not writing the book for me writing it for you. It’s not my book, my name is not even going to be on it. Most likely, I’m think of, I’ve got three books out of the 48. I’ve written for ghostwriting that have my name on it in the copyright section on the buried on the back page, which is cool, because I can use it on my website, then. I have to keep that in mind. If this is not my book. I wrote it. But it’s like me being a contractor. I build a house. It’s not my house. It’s there. It’s your house. You bought it. Somebody bought it bank bought it. I don’t know who bought it. So the contractor has to So okay, so they want us they want to rip the roof out and put a telescope little telescope thing in there. So they can have a little telescope look into the sky. I think that’s stupid. And it’s gonna cost them an extra $100,000. But it’s their house. I’ve always wanted to have a little room on top of the telescope. Never did, it’s now now that I’m older, I’m thinking that would have been stupid. But you know, I had millions and millions of dollars to just burn. But yeah, interesting. For sure. So what do you do to when you’re not working? hobbies and things?

John Papaloni  34:23

Wait a minute, there’s times that we don’t work

Richard Lowe  34:25

has to be.

John Papaloni  34:28

To be honest, most of my hobbies, my everything I do revolves around work. And I don’t mean the same sad state of affairs. Where that oh, I’m always at the office. I’m putting in 40 hours a day. And no, I don’t mean that prime example. I go out, I’m not working. But what’s the networking for meeting new people? Right, what is the meeting new people for? Well, the more you know, the more you grow. Right. And it’s one of those things that you had not necessarily means that there’s going to be business today. But at some point in times, like prime example I’m gonna use a stupid example isn’t route, we have been predominantly talking about real estate or use real estate. I may meet somebody at a bar or whatever. And he’s a plumber. Well, I don’t necessarily need a plumber today. But at some point in time to say, there’s a leak, I need a plumber, who should I call? Hey, I met Bob at the, at the local bar about three months ago, when I call Bob, maybe you’ll help me. Right? And that’s, you know, that’s the way to do it. Right? Like, it’s like, you know, I don’t most people wake up in the morning and say, oh, what idea can I have? Or what can I do today? That’s going to help generate income, or what’s going to help me get my goals? You know, reality is, you grow and you build based on your network. And so you should wake up in the morning, do your morning ritual, and then go, who’s got my money? And figure out who out there? Who do I need to meet? That’s going to help me get closer and closer to my goals? Who do I need to know, that can help me find the solution to the problem I have? And by doing that, you can pretty much go in and go in and find people, you know, and build up people to to help you get there. Yeah, so and that’s the point. So it’s all it’s all about the people you know. So point is, every time I’m out, I live short firm of all that was I live intentional, everything I do is intentional.

Richard Lowe  36:29

Okay, well, I was a terribly introverted person most of my life. So the networking was definitely not easy. When I went into ghost writing as a full time thing, it became essential. If you don’t find if you don’t network, you don’t get business in this field. And it was I had to break that that introversion as you can tell I’m not super introverted now. Although I do spend a lot of time working at home because obviously, it’s my career. But I like to settle down when I’m for creative people, I might be a little bit different. I have to recharge that creativeness. And I do that by working on model kits and things like that. Usually just half an hour at a time. Just to make the mind kind of relax, and then come back and start writing again. Or networking or whatever I need to do. So interesting.

John Papaloni  37:24

Interesting. Yeah, exactly.

Richard Lowe  37:27

Yep. Well, we’re running out of basically hit the time that we need. And do you have any closing remarks?

John Papaloni  37:34

Absolutely. Like, what I’m gonna say is anybody watching or listening is bottom line at any day, and ideas, just an idea unless you execute it. I mean, don’t spend too much time analyzing and get stuck in that analysis paralysis. Instead, come up with an idea, get started. And you can pretty much adapt and change as you go. Instead of trying to perfect it from the beginning. Because no matter how much you try, you will never perfect it. And an idea you have will be still an idea a year from now, if that’s all you do. So pretty much anything is possible if you’re willing to put in the time.

Richard Lowe  38:10

And you should start writing that book today. And take that to heart because otherwise you’ll never write it. And I had a client, she came to me she was 78 years old, her lifelong dream, her only bucket list item was to write a book, she hired me. We took 16 months, we wrote her book, published it, she passed away. Oh shit Chicky she achieved her dream. And if she hadn’t hired me, even though I was definitely a little more expensive than she thought she would never have achieved her dream. And she was so happy when she saw that book on Amazon, that it was worth everything, just to see that joy on her face for that. That book being there for her. So make sense. My recommendation is whoever’s listening to this, if you’ve got a book in you that you want to do, call me call some other ghost writer, sit down and write it yourself getting book writing coach, whatever you need to do, and start now. Because who knows what’s gonna happen in a year, you know, and you get to get distracted, and life’s gonna move out of the way. And I’m sure the same is for real, you can say the same for real estate. You know, if you if you want to jump into real estate, do it. And if you don’t have the money and stuff, we’ll figure that out. And whatever the barriers are, figure it out and do it. And that’s I think the way life works is, as you said, you’ve got to do because you can think about things all day long. I think about all kinds of things. I never probably a lot of things I don’t do. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Well, it’s been great having you on. Thank you. It was an awesome interview. And where can we find you?

John Papaloni  39:46

You can find me on Instagram at instagram.com/johnpapal Oh and I are just go to peperoni capital.com and it will take you to wherever has my information.

Richard Lowe  39:58

Okay, yeah, and those links will be underneath the videos on both the web page and on YouTube, so people will be able to do them so just go down below the video. All right, thank you for coming on. Thank you

Richard Lowe

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