The Doug Thompson Podcast Ghostwriter [Interview]

Doug Thompson Podcast

Announcer: What story are you telling? Whether you’re intentional about it or not? You have an audience, and they think in story. The Doug Thompson podcast features diverse storytellers, sharing their practical tips for telling the story they need others to envision and trust in order to take a new action. Here’s your host, Doug Thompson.

The Doug Thompson Podcast with Richard Lowe

The Full Interview with Richard Lowe

Richard Lowe on the Doug Thompson podcastDoug Thompson: This episode of the Doug Thompson podcast was recorded from a live stream. The interview is here in its entirety. Hey, everybody, welcome to the.com Duck. What the hell’s my name today? The Doug Thompson podcast you think would be easiest. It’s my name. I am Doug Thompson. Although you would not believe it. By the way. I’m speaking and with me today, I am honored to have Richard Lowe. How are you doing today?

Richard Lowe: I am doing fantastic. Thank you. I’m honored to be here.

Doug Thompson: Well great. Thanks a lot. And I see you’re in the Friday Hawaiian attire. And from what you’ve told me, you’ve got a few of these things too. So that’s scary.

Richard Lowe: I’ve got 15 Hawaiian shirts, they’re all equally bright or brighter, and some of them have dragons on them.

Doug Thompson: Oh, I know. I’ve never seen a dragon Hawaiian shirt. That’s interesting. I, my daughter went through my closet many years ago and started tossing out clothes and shirts and stuff. And I claimed one Hawaiian shirt. I use the this is the Hawaiian shirt exclusion. Then she went snuck in and throw it out later. So, I don’t own any of those anymore. But so, what is your day job. You were like the Writing king of kings. Explain all that. What’s a ghostwriter?

Richard Lowe: Well, a ghost writer is somebody who writes a book or article or whatever for you. I mean, ghostwriters write Hallmark cards. They write books, they write articles, they write just about any poems. Apparently, they write rap music. You hire somebody to write for you just like you hire a contractor to build your house?

Doug Thompson: Well, I mean, so you’re a writer, but it’s usually done for somebody else. So, it’s under, like their name or something.

Richard Lowe: They’ve published the books under their name. So far, my name hasn’t been on the cover, but we’ve got one in the pipeline where that will change.

Doug Thompson: Some people might have issues with someone else taking credit for their work. How do you respond to that?

Richard Lowe: Well, I see it as a transaction. They’re not really taking credit; they’re paying me for my work. Primarily, I write for CEOs, CFOs, and high-level managers who are interested in using the book as a marketing tool rather than a product for sale. That accounts for about 70% of my work. The other 30% involves writing for individuals who are primarily focused on selling their book, usually fiction, or a subject they feel strongly about.

Doug Thompson: I see. So, you work across a range of industries?

Richard Lowe: Yes, I’ve worked on projects from a dental office to artificial intelligence. If I’m not familiar with a subject, I interview the client as they’re the subject matter expert. Also, my tech background aids me in understanding a lot of concepts. Sometimes, I may interview other experts and I also rely on online resources.

Doug Thompson: How long does the interview process usually take?

Richard Lowe: For a typical 300-page book, the process takes about six to twelve months. I conduct multiple interviews per week, focusing initially on understanding the client’s viewpoint and writing style. As I get familiar with the subject, I focus on gathering personal stories, which I believe make the book more relatable and interesting.

Doug Thompson: So, you’re like a storyteller. Do your clients usually struggle with creating engaging narratives?

Richard Lowe: Mostly, they either lack the time or the skills to write engaging content. They may be able to write memos or reports but making it interesting for a broader audience requires the inclusion of personal stories and anecdotes.

Doug Thompson: So, the stories they share with you help you capture their voice?

Richard Lowe: Yes, definitely. I strive to reflect their accents, cultural backgrounds, or any unique characteristics in the writing. For example, I’ve had many clients from India, so I work to capture their specific viewpoint. My most challenging project involved writing for an Afghani politician with limited English proficiency, a completely different culture, and a history I knew little about. It was a steep learning curve.

Doug Thompson: That must make you a better writer, having to understand various perspectives.

Richard Lowe: Absolutely. I love talking to people from different cultures or backgrounds. It’s a great learning experience. I’ve also worked with a chief diversity officer, which provided unique insights into diversity issues.

Doug Thompson: That’s interesting. Have you found it challenging to write from a woman’s perspective?

Richard Lowe: My experience as a photographer, where I interacted with a lot of women models, helped me understand the feminine viewpoint. It’s fascinating to listen to people of different cultures, backgrounds, and ethnicities and learn from them.

Doug Thompson: Do you find your previous experiences help you ask the right questions in your interviews?

Richard Lowe: Yes, absolutely. Every interaction enriches my understanding and helps me refine my approach. For example, my work optimizing LinkedIn profiles for people worldwide taught me a lot about cultural sensitivities and differing viewpoints.

Doug Thompson: How did you transition from tech to ghostwriting?

Richard Lowe: My first book was based on my grandfather’s journal, who was a POW in World War II. I wrote that when I was 17. Then during my tech career, I authored a few textbooks since not many people in that field enjoyed writing. However, my professional writing journey began after turning my grandfather’s journal into a book.

Richard Lowe: They’ve published under their own names, with mine yet to grace the cover, but that’s about to change. That’s the way it is.

Doug Thompson: So, how do you handle the issue of someone else taking credit for your work? I know it bothers many people.

Richard Lowe: That’s an excellent question. My answer? Money. I see it this way: they’re not really taking credit, they’re compensating me for my work, and that’s not a bad thing. As for my work, it spans various themes and areas.

Doug Thompson: Typically, what sort of themes or areas do you cover?

Richard Lowe: I often write for CEOs, CFOs, or high-level managers looking to establish their brand. They’re not so interested in selling the book as they are in using it as a marketing tool for their business or personality. That’s about 70% of my work. The other 30% comes from individuals wanting to sell their books. These are usually fiction or passion projects.

Doug Thompson: So, you’ve worked with CEOs across different industries?

Richard Lowe: Indeed, from dental offices to artificial intelligence. It’s a broad spectrum, but I’ve managed quite well so far.

Doug Thompson: How do you approach areas where your knowledge might be limited? No one can know everything. What’s your research process to ensure your writing is plausible and accurate?

Richard Lowe: Firstly, I interview them. They’re the subject matter experts, and I’m the writer. My strong tech background from 33 years in the industry also helps. If needed, I can interview other experts. For one project, we interviewed up to 10 different people. And of course, online research is always an option.

Doug Thompson: In the interview process, how long does it take? What kind of questions do you ask?

Richard Lowe: A typical 60,000-word book, which is about 300 pages, takes anywhere from six to 12 months to write. We start with two to three interviews per week, which later reduces to one as I become more familiar with the subject. Initially, I try to understand their perspective and style of communication. Sometimes, it takes a few attempts to match their style.

While interviewing, if I’m familiar with the technology, I focus on getting stories from them. If I’m not, I also need to understand the technology from them. But primarily, I’m after the personal stories that give the book its character.

Doug Thompson: So essentially, you’re the storyteller here. Do you find that this is a skill your clients often lack?

Richard Lowe: It’s usually a combination of lack of time, which is a major factor, and the inability to write in an engaging way. They can typically write because they’ve reached their positions due to their communication skills, but that doesn’t necessarily translate into interesting writing. The trick is to add personal stories and anecdotes to spice it up.

Doug Thompson: So the stories they share during the interviews help you capture their voice in your writing?

Richard Lowe: Yes, absolutely. I listen to them, their accents, their cultural nuances. I had many Indian clients who wanted to establish a career in the States by writing a book. I learned about their perspectives. The most challenging book was the first one I wrote, for an Afghan politician. He spoke little English and had a rich and complex cultural, religious, and political background. I had a steep learning curve, but it was enlightening.

Doug Thompson: It’s interesting how getting to know a different culture can broaden your perspective and enrich your worldview.

Richard Lowe: I thoroughly enjoy speaking with people from different cultures and backgrounds. I’ve worked on LinkedIn profile optimizations for people from all over the world, including China, Singapore, and Tajikistan. It’s been a great learning experience.

Doug Thompson: What about writing from a woman’s perspective? How do you bridge that gap?

Richard Lowe: Well, there’s a little interesting story behind that. And I’ll give you the nutshell version. When my wife passed away, 15 years ago, I decided to become a photographer. And I wound up for photographing models and supermodels and dancers and things, and they’re all women 1500 Women. So basically, when the models and dancers and things were getting ready for the photoshoot, they, I’d sit there for an hour, while they’re putting on their makeup and stuff, or two, or three or five, and talk to them.

And I learned a lot about women and what they hate about man and stuff like that. And  I really got the feminine viewpoint, from different viewpoints, different feminine viewpoints, there’s not just one. And it was very interesting. And I learned a lot. And I really try and understand the viewpoint of the person before I talk to them, I don’t care whether their woman or you know, an alien from another planet, I can interview them and find out what their viewpoint is.

Doug Thompson: It sounds like a combination of listening and learning from previous experiences helps you ask the right questions and get the information you need.

Richard Lowe: Absolutely. It’s fascinating to engage with people from different cultures and learn about their perspectives. It makes me a better writer, and I enjoy the process.

Doug Thompson: In you but you got bought you talked about being a photographer and doing that in I think the the pictures that are behind you. We don’t talk about the butterflies but the things that are behind you said they were pins from the Rose Parade.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I was a photographer for the for the Rose Parade. But actually, I didn’t work for the Rose Parade. Trader Joe’s had a float in it. And I was worked for Trader Joe’s I was a photographer for them, photographing all the floats and they gave me as a thank you the pen collection for each year. Each one of those is a year’s worth of pens of all the floats.

Doug Thompson: Wow, that’s did it give me two Buck chuck to go along with that.

Richard Lowe: Well, I don’t drink so they did.

Doug Thompson: I’ve been to Trader Joe’s dad and the cranberry nut mixes like my favorite cookie butter. So those are all great. It’s quite. What did how did you get so you got into ghost writing here. You said you started in tech, and you’ve done that you had did you write when you were in technology in your previous role.

Richard Lowe: My first book was of like my grandfather’s journal. I took his journal and wrote it into a book when I was 17 years old. He was a POW. He did the Bataan Death March and World War Two, which was 10,000 soldiers were captured and had to march across Bhutan. Most of them didn’t survive. And he spent four years in a POW camp in World War Two. So, I took his journal, and I made it into a real book, of course, looking at it now, it’s like, oh my god, that’s horrible.

But and since then, I’ve written a few books for myself and textbooks because nobody liked in tech likes to write at all. So, I was one of the weirdos who liked to write. And, and but I never really wrote anything for publication and then I it just came time when in 2013 when I decided to move on, and I decided I was tired of working for another company. And I was gonna jump off the cliff and I had some savings and start my own business.

I had no idea what business I was gonna start. I just said I’m done with this and walked out I mean I gave notice and stuff, but I started my own company and sold on eBay made 35 grand on Ebay but realize how much work that is to make 35 grand on eBay and shipping and packing guide. Sold. Affiliate market Doing Stuff and then realized affiliate marketing is a little scummy.

And didn’t decide not to do that, and a bunch of other things and then got into ghost writing. And immediately once I got moved on from the ghost writer I worked as a subcontractor for I got some big contracts to 10,000 15,000 $20,000 contracts. And I realized it takes just as much work to get $100 contract as it does to get a $15,000 contract. So I don’t go after the $100 contracts.

Doug Thompson: Yeah, sometimes the cost of doing business is too much. And it’s not worth it.

Richard Lowe: I mean, if one falls on my lap, yeah, I’ll work on it. Maybe. But, but I’m at the point now where I can be a little bit careful about what I take. I only work with good customers, customers who work well, who have a good attitude and so forth. In fact, at the beginning of the year, I had a potential client come in, you know how those alarm bells go off in the back of your head? Well, they were going strong.

And it was a $200,000 project. I mean, it’s a big one. Yeah. And my alarm bells just sounded and sounded and sounded. And I thought, you know, every time I haven’t listened to those alarm bells, I’ve suffered. Yeah, I turned him down. And I’m in the position where, yeah, it felt weird turning down $200,000. But it was the right decision. And I could do that. I didn’t have to say, oh, my God, I need to make the money for the rent. I’ve come quite a way in a few years, and I was happy with that.

Doug Thompson: It’s amazing when you don’t have to worry about putting food on the table and stuff to make that you can make the right decision. When the alarm bell, like said, I’ve had that little voice too, that says, you know, I’ve taken a role, which I thought was pretty good. But then saying, No, it was not the right thing to do. So, I’ve done it. So how do you how many projects do you have going on at a time? Generally, is it more than one because you’re talking about maybe a year to go on?

Richard Lowe: You just segwayed exactly where I wanted you to segue, which is the key to being able to turn clients down is you have lots of clients. So I have at least seven or eight clients going at a time when we’re talking $10,000 books are up. So if one goes away, it’s like, yeah, that hurt a little bit, but I can move on. But if you have only one or two clients, then you’re like.

So, it becomes a lot easier to find clients, or to turn down clients or to be picky when you have multiple clients. And you don’t have to worry about so much because they do leave. Sometimes they run out of money, the pandemic hits, they didn’t like the way the book turned out. They didn’t like me, you know, whatever, that it, they decide to move on. And you have to be ready for that.

Doug Thompson: So, when you’re writing, you got multiple, how do you shift that mindset to go like you’re writing this thing on tech, and now you’re writing something on politics or something? How do you because I, I’m very single-track mind, when I’m doing something, it’s very hard for me to keep two balls in the air at the same time.

Richard Lowe: It’s worse than that I’m writing something on tech, then I’m writing something on politics, then I’m writing a kid’s book, then a young adult book, then I’m going to writing a diet book, all in the same day.

Doug Thompson: How do you make that shift?

Richard Lowe: I allocate blocks of time, throughout the day, and take a break, go for a walk, come back, new mindset get started.

Doug Thompson: Do you ever have little ideas? Oh, I was you’re talking about let’s say the kids, oh, I got a better idea about this AI? Do you ever have those streams where they just sort of come in and get you off track?

Richard Lowe: Of course, that happens sometimes. But usually, when I’m on input one particular one, I’m focused, so it’s not really multitasking, because that’s where you’re switching back and forth. While you’re working. It’s more of just blocking out my day and saying, Okay, I’m gonna spend two hours on the children’s book, and two hours on the AI book.

Doug Thompson: So, it’s a task switching, not a multitasking,

Unknown: Multitasking does not work. It tends to drive you nuts and leads to distress, at least in my experience. But switching works very well.

Doug Thompson: Yeah, I’ve had I’ve heard that. I have the shiny object syndrome squirrel, sometimes. And that sort of it’s very just I haven’t disciplined myself enough to how do i

Richard Lowe: I had to remove myself from all social media because of that, except for the ones that I use for business, which is mostly LinkedIn and I use Facebook Messenger and that’s about it. Because man, you get stuck. You get sucked into a Twitter communication. You’ve lost half the day, or tick tock or whatever the other things God forbid.

Doug Thompson: Yeah, there was a TED talk I like and it was it was the inside the mind of a master procrastinator and he uses one example he decided to go to the you know, the Instant Gratification Monkey he calls it decided to go find the end of the internet.

Richard Lowe: I’ve seen that TED Talk. It’s hilarious. And it’s me, you know,

Doug Thompson: It is I have that Instant Gratification Monkey too. So that’s it’s on my Tim Urban does it, it’s on my LinkedIn page. I go watch it every now and then when I’ve got that I feel the monkey coming on, right? In this in this process of, and I’m sure you take some gratification off on it a lot of times it’s the I’m the speaker, here’s my book, you know, sort of sort of thing. I think you’ve mentioned that before.

It’s sort of a business card, if you will, you know, I’m going to be speaking keynote something, here’s my book, buy it or not. But how do you, you those that have gone on that you’ve had commercial success? Do you sort of like sit back and smile? And just, you know,

Richard Lowe: Yeah, yeah. One of the very first projects I got is probably the fifth or sixth. The book, actually, his goal was to get noticed by the CEO, he was in a fortune 50 company, but one of the lower divisions. And he wanted to get noticed by the CEO not only to get noticed by the CEO, the CEO wrote the foreword to the book. It wound up being a textbook, in some of the courtrooms in it was in France.

And that was interesting writing from writing across the pond, and to somebody who wasn’t a native English speaker. So that was fine. And it sold quite a few 1000 copies. And another book of mine has been traditionally published, and it’s sold about 50,000 copies. It doesn’t have my name on it, of course, but my own books have sold been bestsellers, too. I’ve had two bestsellers, one sold 15,000 copies, and the other about 7000. So their Kindle bestsellers. Yeah, well, I

Doug Thompson: Think, you know, hard, you know, I still like a physical book, although I carry so much crap from my laptop and stuff around, it’s really hard to do that. So the Kindle, but although I struggle, if it’s something I know, I’m gonna be highlighting a lot and taking notes, and doggone, you know, things I’m using for reference, whether it be for you know, storytelling, how to things that do that, then I find the physical book is easier to do. But the Kindle is just, it’s from an ease of use to have it with you, if you just want to read it. You know? And that’s sort of the way everybody does it.

Richard Lowe: Exactly. I don’t ask, I have a Kindle. And it probably has four or 500 books on it. But I tend to, I got physical books, you can see them behind me, I’ve got an entire room and a three-bedroom place with that’s just books. And it’s just because I feel I go in there when I get stressed and just look around. I’m comfortable now. Something your viewers might find interesting or your listeners. My first job was for a liquor store when I was 17.

And my boss was a World War Two, German Nazi U-boat commander. And it was interesting working for him, the Nazi part aside, in that he was very strict. And I noticed I was able to him for two years. And I noticed that I was the only one who lasted. And I asked him why. And he said, Because you’re competent. The people who weren’t competent, left for whatever reason. Most of them got fired quickly, because he was very stringent on that he wanted.

That didn’t mean I always did everything, right. Yeah, that didn’t mean I didn’t make mistakes, but I was competent at what I did. And that’s the key to survival. In a job or in a free especially as a freelancer you darn well better be competent. And if that’s followed me through my whole life, the more competent I am. Yeah, the better I succeed.

Doug Thompson: Yeah, I think you bring up an answering point about competency and it’s not about always being right. It is you know, when you are wrong, and you will want it one it means you’re trying something new, usually. So you’re growing you’re out there in two, you’re learning something from it. Right. I think that’s what a competent person does. And it probably was a frame of reference he had.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I do want to ask something if I didn’t know it. How do I do this? I knew when I needed to get education through my career. So I need to go to school to learn this stuff. But I don’t know it. And the worst bosses I had were the ones that didn’t understand that failure is okay. Failure is going to happen. It always you’re going to fail. Yeah, I’m sure even Bill Gates has failed, you know, even though he’s a multi billionaire.

Doug Thompson: I worked with a company for a while. Yeah, there were some failures in there just but we won’t go into that. Yeah.

Richard Lowe: Probably best not to.

Doug Thompson: So you’ve mentioned the photography piece of this you did that for a while did that overlap? The writing was this after you decided to jump ship and you did photography then writing or was there some no existence,

Richard Lowe: Though the photography came first. I did that for about nine years. It was very interesting doing the photography. I met a lot of dancers and models and things. I didn’t really charge for it because they usually broke. They gave me front row center seats and things like that. And every year I had a birthday party for eight years with about 150 Very good-looking dancers come by and both men and women dancers, and they come by and they dance, we rent a hall and they dance and put on a show, and we’d have a great time as a great party. They A lot of fun dressed up the dress up room always looked like a glitter bomb and off. And that was kind of fun. How many people can claim that right?

Doug Thompson: Yes, I this, I could probably count them on one hand if you had any. So, what did the photography in? I’ve asked people this cuz I had a guest on last season that her dad was a photographer. And that’s the way he told stories was, you know, because you want a picture to tell a story, when I’ve talked with people? How did that help? Or did it help you sort of transfer into the writing piece of it? Or did that help you discover the writing piece of it?

Richard Lowe: Well, I’ll tell you how it helped me is when I was I’ve always been kind of introverted. And when the wife passed away, I completely caved in and became a total hermit introvert. I mean, people didn’t even know I existed. With the camera. There’s something in the way, right to talk to you via the camera. And that’s how I was able to talk to all these very, very good-looking dancers and models and superb a couple of supermodels too, because I was talking via the camera. And of course, eventually that became not necessary.

And then when I went into the writing career, the talking and interviewing and stuff, after photographing 1500 people. And using that technique, it was just easy. It so it was overcoming the introversion. Yeah, you have to get if you’re going to be a freelancer, you have to get out there and you have to talk to people, whatever that means. And you can’t depend on throwing out Facebook ads, or all these other things, all these automated things or whatever, you have to talk to people to get them to come in. And if you don’t talk to people, you’re not going to get the business you’re not going to survive.

That’s probably one of the biggest keys to being a freelancer or solo entrepreneur, talking to people being an I’m an I’m a painful injury. I mean, the pandemic was like, great. I don’t have to talk to anybody, you know, I can be a hermit and it’s okay.

Doug Thompson 27:02: No, yeah, you thrive. Yeah,

Richard Lowe: My business actually doubled. At the start of the literally within a week of the start of the pandemic. And I was freaking out, because, oh my God, my business is gonna dry up. But is that you have to communicate. And if you have trouble with that, join Toastmasters or take photography or do something that gets you out there with people and learn to talk, learn to speak and get out break out of that shell or you’re not gonna make it.

Doug Thompson: Yeah. So, I mean, you’ve had an incredible journey that you said. So if I had to sort of do the the hero’s arc or that is you enjoyed writing when you were in the tech field who did all the other stuff on that but you know, that was only a part of what you did.

Life changed wife dot you know, you decided to come out and you saw you said look, the introversion was gonna be a blocker to doing your to do writing, or maybe you didn’t have it, but that helped sort of cross that chasm to now where you’ve got, you can talk without the camera, and then you help give other people’s voices sort of sounds like that’s what the journey is. And you’re, you’re well on your way to sort of living more of your dream. And being in the moment and actually helping other people along the way.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, I look at my life as three phases. So my first phase was my childhood as dumb as a brick. Up to then in the mid midlife, I was growing and being in the tech field, and now I’m in the end part. And this is actually the best part of my life, believe it or not, it’s, it’s, it’s, I know what I’m doing. I’m competent, I’ve got the most of the knowledge, I know what I want to do, I found my career, that is my passion. But it also makes me income. I’m making a good income actually making more than I made in the tech field, which is great. And, you know, I can be a hermit and not be laughed at.

Doug Thompson: I talked to Mark Metrete, earlier in the week, and he’s a big introvert. And he had to do a study on me, he had the book book about being shy and overcoming that. So I need to connect you to guys for that because you share a lot. How do you overcome that? But so how do people get a hold of you? So maybe I need a ghostwriter. And I don’t know it or I you know, and you know, how do we get in touch with you,

Richard Lowe: you can just go to the writing king.com is the writing king.com. And look through the site I’ve got a couple 100 articles about all kinds of stuff, mostly ghost writing and writing. I do ghost writing and writing coaching. So, if you’ve got a manuscript that you finish, but you’re not sure of how good it is, I can help coach you through that. And that’s charged by the hour it goes readings usually charge by the word. And there’s a forum on there you can just fill out your your contact information we can get ahold of there’s also a forum on there to schedule a time if you want to just go directly to that.

And that’s that’s the best way you can also go to the writing King dot you can book.me and actually book something cool. And I do LinkedIn profiles, optimizations and I Do ghost writing of articles and books and I do writing coaching. Oh, and also you can go to fiction masterclass.com. And I’ve got some book articles and books about how to write. So how to write a science fiction book, How to Write a mystery and how to write other things. So, if you want to the cheap, I think they’re 10 or 15 bucks each, you can just go there and buy one and read. Read about how to do that. Well, that’s

Doug Thompson: cool. And my one of my Korean most WooCommerce is your fan. Awesome guests. So, I, I agree full fully with that. Thanks for coming on, Richard. Thanks for what you do, because you’re actually helping give other people voices, which, which I tried to do through the podcast and talking with people and share great stories and you have an outstanding story with the, with your journey. And you’ve had so thanks a lot. And the all the all the links will be in the show notes. And go go reach out and get a book written for you.

Richard Lowe: Yeah, one last site, by the way, is unique souls.com Uniquesouls.Com. Yeah. And that’s a that’s my interviewed writers. There are about 30 writer interviews on there. And they’re all video interviews, and they talk about how they succeeded. They’re all writers who have actually succeeded. Wow. And you can go there and learn how to do it.

Doug Thompson: Wow. And you can go there and learn how to do it. Thanks a lot. I glad. So, until next time, everybody. Thanks. Reach out to Richard and I’ve learned a lot about this one as well. And some behind the scenes stories help using that character. Just sort of hide that shyness.

Richard Lowe: You betcha. That’s it’s very, very, it was very good for me. Cool, thanks. Okay. Bye bye.

Richard Lowe
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